Is it possible to lose salvation?

David Lamb said:

The devil is not there to tempt anyone to sin.

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During the 1000 Year reign of Jesus on the earth the devil will be locked up and nobody on earth will be tempted to do evil... but God's Word says Jesus will rule with a hand of Iron which would not be needed if nobody was in opposition to Him as the Righteous ruler over this world.

Point is, mankind will still have free will so it will be possible for someone to decide they want to be in opposition to God while in His Presence. I agree that it would be highly unlikely anyone one would dare decide to be in opposition to God, but it will in fact be possible since we will still have our free will.

Remember, lucifer was created absolutely perfect and was living in the presence of the Father being the very top angel in authority over all of the Father's creation and nobody tempted lucifer to do evil and then one day, iniquity was found in him, and like lightning he was cast out of Heaven the split second iniquity was found in him. Obviously he had been given the ability to choose and he decided at one point to be in opposition to God

Rev 21:27 does not mean someone could at some point in the future decide to oppose God like lucifer did and get kicked out just as fast as they made their faulty decision.

The same was true with Judas. He was a good guy in the beginning, otherwise Jesus would not have brought him on staff and Jesus certainly would not have given Judas the Holy Spirit with the ability to do miracles as He did with all the disciples.

If Judas was evil all along then it would have been sinful behavior for Jesus to make an evil person part of His ministry and to give an evil person the Holy Spirit.

The OSAS heretics love to play games with Judas because they know he was in right standing with the Lord and then fell away. They will say anything to try to protect their fake doctrines.

David Lamb said:

There are plenty of Bible verses teaching us that saved people, Christians, have everlasting life, and that their citizenship is in heaven.

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If you knew and accepted the whole counsel of God you would know that it's very possible for one to lose their salvation.

David Lamb said:

The idea that someone could go to heaven, sin there, and be cast out, is not found in the Bible

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We do see in the Bible that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance so we know God never removes mankind's free will so that means it's possible someone may use their free will to decide to be in opposition to God although I'd think that would be very unlikely that anybody would. But they could.

Those that think God did not create man in His Own Image who falsely claim man has no free will must acknowledge that they believe God made man in to a mindless robot and as such we don't walk in faith or abide in Christ as they claim God just does all that for man and man is nothing more than a robot.

This is demonic teaching and it's why false teachers got deceive in to following so called reformed theology and/or catholicism who both falsely claim God assigned salvation to a few and assigned eternal damnation to all others and of course they believe only those who are of their cult are the ones saved.

gpresdo said:

Why isn't Acts 2;38, repent and be baptized....et al, proper guidance....?
Please explain your reason?

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Those following the false teachers are trained in cherry picken so the answer you will get back will be packed with false doctrine so beware of the chicanery coming your way

mailmandan said:

Acts 2:38 must be read alongside verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) where forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not water baptism. One must look beyond an isolated pet verse and consider the totality of scripture.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*So, the only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

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ACTS 2;38 and exact replications in other Bible books...needs no assistance for a ..."side by side", it stands alone. How many times do you want God to instruct us of ....HIS COMANDMENT?

Non of your listed references distract from Acts 2;38. It is plain and simple. Repeated in other books including Matthew.
You are using the typical ...NEW AGE RELIGION approach of...if it is not what u want it to say throw all other scriptures after the point to confuse.

Do you also use the thief on the cross as an example supporting your advocacy? Please tell me u don't? Most NAR advocates do.

gpresdo said:

ACTS 2;38 and exact others in other Bible books...needs no assistance for a ..."side by side", it stands alone.

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Thats your problem. Stand alone pet verses and flawed hermeneutics.

gpresdo said:

Non of those references distract from Acts 2;38. It is plain and simple. Repeated in other books including Matthew.
You are using the typical ...NEW AGE RELIGION approach of...if it is not what u want it to say throw all other scriptures after the point to confuse.

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New age religion? LOL! Not even close. I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

gpresdo said:

Do you also use the thief on the cross as an example? Please tell me u don't? Most NAR advocates do.

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New age religion has nothing to do with the thief on the cross. In Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING.

Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) Of course, he died while still hanging on the cross before having the opportunity to be water baptized.

mailmandan said:

Thats your problem. Stand alone pet verses and flawed hermeneutics.

New age religion? LOL! Not even close. I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

New age religion has nothing to do with the thief on the cross. In Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING.

Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) Of course, he died while still hanging on the cross before having the opportunity to be water baptized.

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Baloney, absolute baloney!!. That's your problem.

Christ and the thief on the cross died on the cross.. . under the old Covenant/old testament...it required no baptism for sin forgiveness. Hello!!!

The death on the Cross of Christ established ...grace....and is what established the new forgiveness commandment under the New Covenant/new testament...which does require water baptism for complete sin cleansing. Quote Christ, when asked by John.....rabbi...why must it be.

You can't change the Bible. No matter how often you try.

gpresdo said:

Baloney, absolute baloney!!. That's your problem.

Christ and the thief on the cross died on the cross.. . under the old Covenant/old testament...it required no baptism for sin forgiveness. Hello!!!

The death on the Cross of Christ established ...grace....and is what established the new forgiveness commandment under the New Covenant/new testament...which does require water baptism for complete sin cleansing. Quote Christ, when asked by John.....rabbi...why must it be.

You can't change the Bible. No matter how often you try.

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I've heard that same argument before about the thief, but does it hold water? Now after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, in Acts 2:38, we read - "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.." and before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3, we read - John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

So, in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3, was this baptism of repentance for (in order to obtain) the remission of sins or was it for (in regard to/on the basis of) the remission of sins received upon repentance? It would have to be the latter in order to agree with your pre-new covenant argument on baptism.

Also, in Matthew 3:11, we read: I baptize you with water for repentance.. If translated "in order to obtain" the verse does not make sense. I baptize you with water for (in order to obtain) repentance? or I baptize you with water for (in regard to/on the basis of) the remission of sins received upon repentance? Obviously, the latter.

Whatever baptism is "for" in Acts 2:38, it's "for" in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3. Water baptism is "in regard to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance. So the water baptism is not necessary for salvation under the Old Testament mandate but is necessary for salvation under the New Testament mandate argument doesn't hold water.

Before AND after Pentecost, salvation is through belief/faith "apart from water baptism" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17 18; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Other folks may ask the question, "how do we know that the thief wasn't previously water baptized yet? Well, baspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus is certainly not the fruit of repentance. I find it very unlikely that the thief had previously repented and was water baptized prior to his crucifixion.

I am not looking to change the Bible. I also don't hang my hat on isolated pet verses but consider the totality of scripture. You need to place your faith in the Savior God and not the water god.

mailmandan said:

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, the belief must continue in order to demonstrate that it was not in vain.

Strong's #1500: eike (pronounced i-kay') In vain, without cause, for no purpose

probably from 1502 (through the idea of failure); idly, i.e. without reason (or effect):--without a cause, (in) vain(-ly).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

eikē

1) inconsiderably, without purpose, without just cause

2) in vain

2a) without success or effort

Part of Speech: adverb

Relation: probably from G1502 (through the idea of failure)

Citing in TDNT: 2:380, 203

Strongs's #1500: eike - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

Belief that does not continue was never firmly rooted and established in the gospel from the start. Hence, unless you believed in vain.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. *Nothing there about UN-sealed.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. *Nothing there about UN-sealed.

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Yes, I believe and it makes sense that since belief is THE requirement to be 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved then belief needs to be ongoing.
Is STOP SINNING also a requirement to remain 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved, if so where does Paul teach that ?

PeterAndroz said:

Yes, I believe and it makes sense that since belief is THE requirement to be 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved then belief needs to be ongoing.
Is STOP SINNING also a requirement to remain 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved, if so where does Paul teach that ?

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If sinless perfection was a requirement to remain saved, then none of us would make it. (1 John 1:8-10)

mailmandan said:

I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

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IF that were actually true then you would be honest and acknowledge the passages in the New Testament that tell us it's entirely possible for a believer to turn away from the Lord and cause himself to not spend eternity with the Lord.

You nothing more than a cherry picker as you've proven time and time again.

gpresdo said:

Christ and the thief on the cross died on the cross.. . under the old Covenant/old testament...it required no baptism for sin forgiveness. Hello!!!

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Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

According to Jesus, the law and the prophets stopped with John the Baptist which was the time when New Covenant teaching started being delivered to mankind thru Jesus and continued thru His Apostles as Jesus continued His teaching ministry thru their writings after He went back to Heaven.

Sounds like some folk believe Jesus lied in Luke 16:16

That's par for course because the false teachers really need to explain away Luke 16:16 in order to continue in their false doctrine.

PeterAndroz said:

Is STOP SINNING also a requirement to remain 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved, if so where does Paul teach that ?

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Oh no, they will fight you on that cause the OSAS people are required by their religious social club to serve and protect their precious OSAS fake gospel claiming it's not possible for one to not go to Heaven after having gotten saved even if they went back to living in sin.

So they will tell you that nobody can ever stop sinning even if they had the Holy Spirit indwelling in them, they can never ever stop sinning. This is why the enjoy the greasy grace doctrines so they can keep the door open to do a little sin and still "feel good about themselves"

They cherry pick the Lord's teachings coming thru Paul and don't accept all that has been said which tracks because they don't accept all of the Words in Red either...

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

LoveYeshua said:

Stop sinning is a requirement, Christ said this many times to Repent and sin no more.

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Yes, that is correct teaching.

The cherry pickers think it's not possible for them to stop sinning even if they had the Holy Spirit.

What this comes down to is they either don't have the Holy Spirit at all, or they believe the Holy Spirit is so small and weak that He cannot empower anybody to live in victory over sin.

And so they continue in sin which is evident by how hard try try to sell others on the idea that nobody could ever stop living in sin. The greasy grace people are really really in to sin. There's a reason why what they follow is known as "greasy grace"

Dan Clarkston said:

IF that were actually true then you would be honest and acknowledge the passages in the New Testament that tell us it's entirely possible for a believer to turn away from the Lord and cause himself to not spend eternity with the Lord.

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I'm yet to find a passage in the New Testament that unequivocally tells us that a genuine believer (truly saved person) really lost their salvation. Yet its not hard to find those who profess to be believers and even set out to follow the teachings of Christ then end up turning away. They are called "nominal" or pseudo Christians and its not hard to find them mixed together with genuine Christians throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.

Dan Clarkston said:

You nothing more than a cherry picker as you've proven time and time again.

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I have proven time and time again that I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. It's you who is only concerned with cherry picking your pet verses and ignoring the context and the rest of scripture.

Dan Clarkston said:

Oh no, they will fight you on that cause the OSAS people are required by their religious social club to serve and protect their precious OSAS fake gospel claiming it's not possible for one to not go to Heaven after having gotten saved even if they went back to living in sin.

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What fake gospel is that? The gospel is not you can or can't lose your salvation. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

What gospel are you promoting? Believe you can lose your salvation or perish?

Your anti-OSAS derangement syndrome has reached a new level. You may need to seek professional help from a Christian counselor. I know several Christians in the OSAS camp who DO NOT teach they can sin all they want/live like the devil etc.. and still go to Heaven. You need to stop with the name calling and the slander and stop being so quick to judge and condemn others. It's very telling and does not help your witness

mailmandan said:

I'm yet to find a passage in the New Testament that unequivocally tells us that a genuine believer (truly saved person) really lost their salvation. Yet its not hard to find those who profess to be believers and even set out to follow the teachings of Christ then end up turning away. They are called "nominal" or pseudo Christians and its not hard to find them mixed together with genuine Christians throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.

I have proven time and time again that I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. It's you who is only concerned with cherry picking your pet verses and ignoring the context and the rest of scripture.

What fake gospel is that? The gospel is not you can or can't lose your salvation. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

What gospel are you promoting? Believe you can lose your salvation or perish?

Your anti-OSAS derangement syndrome has reached a new level. You may need to seek professional help from a Christian counselor. I know several Christians in the OSAS camp who DO NOT teach they can sin all they want/live like the devil etc.. and still go to Heaven. You need to stop with the name calling and the slander and stop being so quick to judge and condemn others. It's very telling and does not help your witness

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"I'm yet to find a passage in the New Testament that unequivocally tells us that a genuine believer (truly saved person) really lost their salvation. Yet its not hard to find those who profess to be believers and even set out to follow the teachings of Christ then end up turning away. They are called "nominal" or pseudo Christians and its not hard to find them mixed together with genuine Christians throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites."
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Oh now u want a specific wording whereas with respect to baptism...u wont accept such specific words....'Repent and be baptized' Isn't that kinda self serving.....more baloney...i submit. Harmonize?....hardly. Attempt to change scripture on your part.

gpresdo said:

"I'm yet to find a passage in the New Testament that unequivocally tells us that a genuine believer (truly saved person) really lost their salvation. Yet its not hard to find those who profess to be believers and even set out to follow the teachings of Christ then end up turning away. They are called "nominal" or pseudo Christians and its not hard to find them mixed together with genuine Christians throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites."
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Oh now u want a specific wording whereas with respect to baptism...u wont accept such specific words....'Repent and be baptized' Isn't that kinda self serving.....more baloney...i submit. Harmonize?....hardly. Attempt to change scripture on your part.

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I accept Acts 2:38 properly interpreted. Now in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

In Acts 10:43, we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So, the only Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

mailmandan said:

I accept Acts 2:38 properly interpreted. Now in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

In Acts 10:43, we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So, the only Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

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Acts 2;38 is backed by other specific scriptures pointing to the same conclusion without any other support....and certainly without harmonizing...(what ever that means connected with scriptures).