Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Dan Clarkston]

The devil is not there to tempt anyone to sin.

During the 1000 Year reign of Jesus on the earth the devil will be locked up and nobody on earth will be tempted to do evil... but God's Word says Jesus will rule with a hand of Iron which would not be needed if nobody was in opposition to Him as the Righteous ruler over this world.

Point is, mankind will still have free will so it will be possible for someone to decide they want to be in opposition to God while in His Presence. I agree that it would be highly unlikely anyone one would dare decide to be in opposition to God, but it will in fact be possible since we will still have our free will.

Remember, lucifer was created absolutely perfect and was living in the presence of the Father being the very top angel in authority over all of the Father's creation and nobody tempted lucifer to do evil and then one day, iniquity was found in him, and like lightning he was cast out of Heaven the split second iniquity was found in him. Obviously he had been given the ability to choose and he decided at one point to be in opposition to God

Rev 21:27 does not mean someone could at some point in the future decide to oppose God like lucifer did and get kicked out just as fast as they made their faulty decision.

The same was true with Judas. He was a good guy in the beginning, otherwise Jesus would not have brought him on staff and Jesus certainly would not have given Judas the Holy Spirit with the ability to do miracles as He did with all the disciples.

If Judas was evil all along then it would have been sinful behavior for Jesus to make an evil person part of His ministry and to give an evil person the Holy Spirit.

The OSAS heretics love to play games with Judas because they know he was in right standing with the Lord and then fell away. They will say anything to try to protect their fake doctrines.

There are plenty of Bible verses teaching us that saved people, Christians, have everlasting life, and that their citizenship is in heaven.

If you knew and accepted the whole counsel of God you would know that it's very possible for one to lose their salvation.

The idea that someone could go to heaven, sin there, and be cast out, is not found in the Bible

We do see in the Bible that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance so we know God never removes mankind's free will so that means it's possible someone may use their free will to decide to be in opposition to God although I'd think that would be very unlikely that anybody would. But they could.

Those that think God did not create man in His Own Image who falsely claim man has no free will must acknowledge that they believe God made man in to a mindless robot and as such we don't walk in faith or abide in Christ as they claim God just does all that for man and man is nothing more than a robot.

This is demonic teaching and it's why false teachers got deceive in to following so called reformed theology and/or catholicism who both falsely claim God assigned salvation to a few and assigned eternal damnation to all others and of course they believe only those who are of their cult are the ones saved.

Why isn't Acts 2;38, repent and be baptized....et al, proper guidance....?
Please explain your reason?

Those following the false teachers are trained in cherry picken so the answer you will get back will be packed with false doctrine so beware of the chicanery coming your way

 

[LoveYeshua]

I have never heard anybody say that heaven is a place where we can continue to sin, or even want to do so. The devil is not there to tempt anyone to sin. Revelation tells us that those in heaven will be serving their Saviour day and night, in other word, all the time:

(Rev 7:15 NKJV) Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

Hi David you are right, in Heaven there will be no sin, the tempter will have been thrown in the lake of fire and be no more and forgotten He knows this and now is preparing more destruction lies and deception, we live in difficult times and we must be careful.

 

[gpresdo]

Acts 2:38 must be read alongside verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) where forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not water baptism. One must look beyond an isolated pet verse and consider the totality of scripture.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*So, the only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

ACTS 2;38 and exact replications in other Bible books...needs no assistance for a ..."side by side", it stands alone. How many times do you want God to instruct us of ....HIS COMANDMENT?

Non of your listed references distract from Acts 2;38. It is plain and simple. Repeated in other books including Matthew.
You are using the typical ...NEW AGE RELIGION approach of...if it is not what u want it to say throw all other scriptures after the point to confuse.

Do you also use the thief on the cross as an example supporting your advocacy? Please tell me u don't? Most NAR advocates do.

 

[mailmandan]

ACTS 2;38 and exact others in other Bible books...needs no assistance for a ..."side by side", it stands alone.

Thats your problem. Stand alone pet verses and flawed hermeneutics.

Non of those references distract from Acts 2;38. It is plain and simple. Repeated in other books including Matthew.
You are using the typical ...NEW AGE RELIGION approach of...if it is not what u want it to say throw all other scriptures after the point to confuse.

New age religion? LOL! Not even close. I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

Do you also use the thief on the cross as an example? Please tell me u don't? Most NAR advocates do.

New age religion has nothing to do with the thief on the cross. In Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING.

Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) Of course, he died while still hanging on the cross before having the opportunity to be water baptized.

 

[gpresdo]

Thats your problem. Stand alone pet verses and flawed hermeneutics.

New age religion? LOL! Not even close. I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

New age religion has nothing to do with the thief on the cross. In Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING.

Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) Of course, he died while still hanging on the cross before having the opportunity to be water baptized.

Baloney, absolute baloney!!. That's your problem.

Christ and the thief on the cross died on the cross.. . under the old Covenant/old testament...it required no baptism for sin forgiveness. Hello!!!

The death on the Cross of Christ established ...grace....and is what established the new forgiveness commandment under the New Covenant/new testament...which does require water baptism for complete sin cleansing. Quote Christ, when asked by John.....rabbi...why must it be.

You can't change the Bible. No matter how often you try.

 

[mailmandan]

Baloney, absolute baloney!!. That's your problem.

Christ and the thief on the cross died on the cross.. . under the old Covenant/old testament...it required no baptism for sin forgiveness. Hello!!!

The death on the Cross of Christ established ...grace....and is what established the new forgiveness commandment under the New Covenant/new testament...which does require water baptism for complete sin cleansing. Quote Christ, when asked by John.....rabbi...why must it be.

You can't change the Bible. No matter how often you try.

I've heard that same argument before about the thief, but does it hold water? Now after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, in Acts 2:38, we read - "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.." and before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3, we read - John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

So, in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3, was this baptism of repentance for (in order to obtain) the remission of sins or was it for (in regard to/on the basis of) the remission of sins received upon repentance? It would have to be the latter in order to agree with your pre-new covenant argument on baptism.

Also, in Matthew 3:11, we read: I baptize you with water for repentance.. If translated "in order to obtain" the verse does not make sense. I baptize you with water for (in order to obtain) repentance? or I baptize you with water for (in regard to/on the basis of) the remission of sins received upon repentance? Obviously, the latter.

Whatever baptism is "for" in Acts 2:38, it's "for" in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3. Water baptism is "in regard to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance. So the water baptism is not necessary for salvation under the Old Testament mandate but is necessary for salvation under the New Testament mandate argument doesn't hold water.

Before AND after Pentecost, salvation is through belief/faith "apart from water baptism" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17 18; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Other folks may ask the question, "how do we know that the thief wasn't previously water baptized yet? Well, baspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus is certainly not the fruit of repentance. I find it very unlikely that the thief had previously repented and was water baptized prior to his crucifixion.

I am not looking to change the Bible. I also don't hang my hat on isolated pet verses but consider the totality of scripture. You need to place your faith in the Savior God and not the water god.

 

[PeterAndroz]

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, the belief must continue in order to demonstrate that it was not in vain.

Strong's #1500: eike (pronounced i-kay') In vain, without cause, for no purpose

probably from 1502 (through the idea of failure); idly, i.e. without reason (or effect):--without a cause, (in) vain(-ly).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

eikē

1) inconsiderably, without purpose, without just cause

2) in vain

2a) without success or effort

Part of Speech: adverb

Relation: probably from G1502 (through the idea of failure)

Citing in TDNT: 2:380, 203

Strongs's #1500: eike - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

Belief that does not continue was never firmly rooted and established in the gospel from the start. Hence, unless you believed in vain.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. *Nothing there about UN-sealed.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. *Nothing there about UN-sealed.

Yes, I believe and it makes sense that since belief is THE requirement to be 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved then belief needs to be ongoing.
Is STOP SINNING also a requirement to remain 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved, if so where does Paul teach that ?

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, I believe and it makes sense that since belief is THE requirement to be 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved then belief needs to be ongoing.
Is STOP SINNING also a requirement to remain 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved, if so where does Paul teach that ?

If sinless perfection was a requirement to remain saved, then none of us would make it. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[LoveYeshua]

Yes, I believe and it makes sense that since belief is THE requirement to be 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved then belief needs to be ongoing.
Is STOP SINNING also a requirement to remain 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved, if so where does Paul teach that ?

Stop sinning is a requirement, Christ said this many times to Repent and sin no more.

also Paul;

Romans 6:1-2
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein?"

Romans 6:12-13
"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey the lusts thereof: neither present your members unto sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves unto God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God."

Ephesians 4:22-24
"That ye put away, as concerning your former manner of life, the old man, that waxeth corrupt after the lusts of deceit; and that ye be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new man, that after God hath been created in righteousness and holiness of truth."

there is more but ill stop here.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

IF that were actually true then you would be honest and acknowledge the passages in the New Testament that tell us it's entirely possible for a believer to turn away from the Lord and cause himself to not spend eternity with the Lord.

You nothing more than a cherry picker as you've proven time and time again.

Christ and the thief on the cross died on the cross.. . under the old Covenant/old testament...it required no baptism for sin forgiveness. Hello!!!

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

According to Jesus, the law and the prophets stopped with John the Baptist which was the time when New Covenant teaching started being delivered to mankind thru Jesus and continued thru His Apostles as Jesus continued His teaching ministry thru their writings after He went back to Heaven.

Sounds like some folk believe Jesus lied in Luke 16:16

That's par for course because the false teachers really need to explain away Luke 16:16 in order to continue in their false doctrine.

Is STOP SINNING also a requirement to remain 1 Cor 15:1-4 saved, if so where does Paul teach that ?

Oh no, they will fight you on that cause the OSAS people are required by their religious social club to serve and protect their precious OSAS fake gospel claiming it's not possible for one to not go to Heaven after having gotten saved even if they went back to living in sin.

So they will tell you that nobody can ever stop sinning even if they had the Holy Spirit indwelling in them, they can never ever stop sinning. This is why the enjoy the greasy grace doctrines so they can keep the door open to do a little sin and still "feel good about themselves"

They cherry pick the Lord's teachings coming thru Paul and don't accept all that has been said which tracks because they don't accept all of the Words in Red either...

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Stop sinning is a requirement, Christ said this many times to Repent and sin no more.

Yes, that is correct teaching.

The cherry pickers think it's not possible for them to stop sinning even if they had the Holy Spirit.

What this comes down to is they either don't have the Holy Spirit at all, or they believe the Holy Spirit is so small and weak that He cannot empower anybody to live in victory over sin.

And so they continue in sin which is evident by how hard try try to sell others on the idea that nobody could ever stop living in sin. The greasy grace people are really really in to sin. There's a reason why what they follow is known as "greasy grace"

 

[mailmandan]

IF that were actually true then you would be honest and acknowledge the passages in the New Testament that tell us it's entirely possible for a believer to turn away from the Lord and cause himself to not spend eternity with the Lord.

I'm yet to find a passage in the New Testament that unequivocally tells us that a genuine believer (truly saved person) really lost their salvation. Yet its not hard to find those who profess to be believers and even set out to follow the teachings of Christ then end up turning away. They are called "nominal" or pseudo Christians and its not hard to find them mixed together with genuine Christians throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.

You nothing more than a cherry picker as you've proven time and time again.

I have proven time and time again that I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. It's you who is only concerned with cherry picking your pet verses and ignoring the context and the rest of scripture.

Oh no, they will fight you on that cause the OSAS people are required by their religious social club to serve and protect their precious OSAS fake gospel claiming it's not possible for one to not go to Heaven after having gotten saved even if they went back to living in sin.

What fake gospel is that? The gospel is not you can or can't lose your salvation. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

What gospel are you promoting? Believe you can lose your salvation or perish?

Your anti-OSAS derangement syndrome has reached a new level. You may need to seek professional help from a Christian counselor. I know several Christians in the OSAS camp who DO NOT teach they can sin all they want/live like the devil etc.. and still go to Heaven. You need to stop with the name calling and the slander and stop being so quick to judge and condemn others. It's very telling and does not help your witness

 

[gpresdo]

I'm yet to find a passage in the New Testament that unequivocally tells us that a genuine believer (truly saved person) really lost their salvation. Yet its not hard to find those who profess to be believers and even set out to follow the teachings of Christ then end up turning away. They are called "nominal" or pseudo Christians and its not hard to find them mixed together with genuine Christians throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.

I have proven time and time again that I interpret scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. It's you who is only concerned with cherry picking your pet verses and ignoring the context and the rest of scripture.

What fake gospel is that? The gospel is not you can or can't lose your salvation. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

What gospel are you promoting? Believe you can lose your salvation or perish?

Your anti-OSAS derangement syndrome has reached a new level. You may need to seek professional help from a Christian counselor. I know several Christians in the OSAS camp who DO NOT teach they can sin all they want/live like the devil etc.. and still go to Heaven. You need to stop with the name calling and the slander and stop being so quick to judge and condemn others. It's very telling and does not help your witness

"I'm yet to find a passage in the New Testament that unequivocally tells us that a genuine believer (truly saved person) really lost their salvation. Yet its not hard to find those who profess to be believers and even set out to follow the teachings of Christ then end up turning away. They are called "nominal" or pseudo Christians and its not hard to find them mixed together with genuine Christians throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites."
===========================
Oh now u want a specific wording whereas with respect to baptism...u wont accept such specific words....'Repent and be baptized' Isn't that kinda self serving.....more baloney...i submit. Harmonize?....hardly. Attempt to change scripture on your part.

 

[mailmandan]

"I'm yet to find a passage in the New Testament that unequivocally tells us that a genuine believer (truly saved person) really lost their salvation. Yet its not hard to find those who profess to be believers and even set out to follow the teachings of Christ then end up turning away. They are called "nominal" or pseudo Christians and its not hard to find them mixed together with genuine Christians throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites."
===========================
Oh now u want a specific wording whereas with respect to baptism...u wont accept such specific words....'Repent and be baptized' Isn't that kinda self serving.....more baloney...i submit. Harmonize?....hardly. Attempt to change scripture on your part.

I accept Acts 2:38 properly interpreted. Now in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

In Acts 10:43, we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So, the only Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[gpresdo]

I accept Acts 2:38 properly interpreted. Now in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

In Acts 10:43, we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So, the only Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

Acts 2;38 is backed by other specific scriptures pointing to the same conclusion without any other support....and certainly without harmonizing...(what ever that means connected with scriptures).

 

[Dan Clarkston]

....and certainly without harmonizing...(what ever that means connected with scriptures).

Er yeah that would be numerous scripture references agreeing with one another concerning a particular topic

 

[PeterAndroz]

Yes, that is correct teaching.

The cherry pickers think it's not possible for them to stop sinning even if they had the Holy Spirit.

Stop sinning is a requirement, Christ said this many times to Repent and sin no more.

""""Yes, that is correct teaching.""""
and you no longer sin Danny ?

 

[mailmandan]

Acts 2;38 is backed by other specific scriptures pointing to the same conclusion without any other support....and certainly without harmonizing...(what ever that means connected with scriptures).

We have numerous passages of scripture that clearly teach, we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 4:4; 10:4; 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6, 9: 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:4, 13 etc..) Then we have a handful of verses that "on the surface" appear to contradict those verses by "adding the work of water baptism" to salvation through belief/faith yet if we go with the latter, then we end up contradicting those numerous clear passages of scripture by our own personal eisegesis and there are no contradictions in God's Word. *HERMENEUTICS.

There are a handful of alleged proof texts that water-salvationists use to try and prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation (Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21) yet after a careful examination of each of those texts in context will show that none of them conclusively prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, those texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized. (Acts 10:43-47) Now baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles; it was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ for salvation. (Acts 10:43)

 

[LoveYeshua]

We have numerous passages of scripture that clearly teach, we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 4:4; 10:4; 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6, 9: 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:4, 13 etc..) Then we have a handful of verses that "on the surface" appear to contradict those verses by "adding the work of water baptism" to salvation through belief/faith yet if we go with the latter, then we end up contradicting those numerous clear passages of scripture by our own personal eisegesis and there are no contradictions in God's Word. *HERMENEUTICS.

There are a handful of alleged proof texts that water-salvationists use to try and prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation (Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21) yet after a careful examination of each of those texts in context will show that none of them conclusively prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, those texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized. (Acts 10:43-47) Now baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles; it was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ for salvation. (Acts 10:43

I agree that we are saved by faith in Christ. The real question is whether Jesus taught that once a person believes, their future salvation can never be lost regardless of how they live afterward.

When we look at Jesus' own words as one with GOD having received all authority in Heaven and Earth, He repeatedly gives warnings to believers about continuing in faith and obedience.

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21-23, ASV)

Calling Jesus "Lord" is not enough. Jesus says only those who continue to do the Father's will will enter the kingdom.

“And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold. But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:12-13, ASV)

Salvation is connected with enduring to the end, not simply with a past profession of faith.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman... Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away... Abide in me, and I in you... If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:1-6, ASV) Here, Jesus is speaking about branches that are "in Me." Those who do not continue in Him are removed.

“If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15, ASV) Genuine faith produces obedience. Jesus never separates believing from following Him.

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10, ASV) Remaining in Christ's love is connected to continuing in obedience.

“Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.” (Revelation 2:10, ASV) The promise is given to those who remain faithful until death.

“He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” (Revelation 3:5, ASV) The promise is to the one who overcomes. Jesus does not present perseverance as optional.

Faith is the beginning of salvation, but Jesus consistently teaches that true faith continues in obedience, bears fruit, endures to the end, and remains in Him. Rather than saying, "I believed once, therefore my future is guaranteed," Jesus repeatedly calls His followers to continue walking with Him until the end.

 

[mailmandan]

I agree that we are saved by faith in Christ.

Amen!

The real question is whether Jesus taught that once a person believes, their future salvation can never be lost regardless of how they live afterward.

When we look at Jesus' own words as one with GOD having received all authority in Heaven and Earth, He repeatedly gives warnings to believers about continuing in faith and obedience.

I see continuing in faith and obedience as a conditional confirmation that one is a child of God. (1 John 2:3-4; 3:7-10, 23; 4:13-15)

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21-23, ASV)

In regard to Matthew 7:22, Jesus never knew these many people (vs. 23) which means they were never saved. These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation, which demonstrates they did not do the will of the Father unto salvation. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These many people were trusting in their works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Jesus Christ - Romans 3:24-28; Philippians 3:9) was still stained with sin. Hence, workers of iniquity/practice lawlessness from an unregenerate heart.

Calling Jesus "Lord" is not enough. Jesus says only those who continue to do the Father's will enter the kingdom.

There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

AND

Doing God's will AFTER ONE HAS BEEN SAVED. 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

“And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold. But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:12-13, ASV)

Enduring to the end is a conditional confirmation that one is a child of God and shall be saved. Those who fail to endure confirm otherwise.

Salvation is connected with enduring to the end, not simply with a past profession of faith.

Saving faith in Christ endures and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Genuine believers endure, not because they pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and endured in their own strength, but because Christ preserves His own. (Jude 1:1) In 1 Peter 1:4-5, we read - to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. The believer does not earn salvation by enduring. Jesus said of His sheep, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28). The sheep hear, follow, and the Shepherd keeps.

CONTINUED..

 

[mailmandan]

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman... Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away... Abide in me, and I in you... If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:1-6, ASV) Here, Jesus is speaking about branches that are "in Me." Those who do not continue in Him are removed.

The phrase “in me” does not automatically mean every branch has a spiritual and vital connection with Christ as the vine and is truly born again, justified, and eternally saved. Jesus spoke these words prior to the new covenant being fully established. (John 7:37-39) Judas Iscariot proves that outward connection to Christ as the vine is not the same as spiritual and vital inward connection that results in cleansing. We see this in John 13:10-11, we read - Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew who would betray Him; therefore, He said, “You are not all clean.”

So, John 15 is not teaching that a truly saved person can be given eternal life, become clean, become Christ’s sheep, and then perish. Jesus already said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28) He also said, “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." (John 15:3) So, the issue is not whether fruit matters. It absolutely matters. A fruitless branch is taken away. The issue is what the fruitlessness reveals. Scripture shows it reveals a false profession, not the loss of eternal life. Judas did not lose salvation. He was exposed as never clean. John 15 warns every outward professor that if there is no fruit, there is no life. It does not overturn Christ’s promise that His sheep shall never perish.

“If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15, ASV) Genuine faith produces obedience. Jesus never separates believing from following Him.

Keeping His commandments/obedience is produced from genuine faith, yet faith is still the root of salvation and obedience which follows is the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10, ASV) Remaining in Christ's love is connected to continuing in obedience.

All who are truly born again abide in love. Why? Because we (believers) have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel. (Ephesians 1:13) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. This is a conditional confirmation of having received the Holy Spirit and being a child of God (1 John 4:13-15) and not salvation by works at the back door.

“Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.” (Revelation 2:10, ASV) The promise is given to those who remain faithful until death.

If Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness."

I see Revelation as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That would be salvation by works! I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there! In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Make believers/unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

“He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” (Revelation 3:5, ASV) The promise is to the one who overcomes. Jesus does not present perseverance as optional.

Revelation 3:5 - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. This is a conditional confirmation and not salvation by works at the back door. Only genuine believers overcome.

Faith is the beginning of salvation, but Jesus consistently teaches that true faith continues in obedience, bears fruit, endures to the end, and remains in Him. Rather than saying, "I believed once, therefore my future is guaranteed," Jesus repeatedly calls His followers to continue walking with Him until the end.

There are 3 tenses to salvation.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

Only true followers of Jesus will continue walking with Him until the end. Unlike those who are not His true followers. (John 6:64-66)

2 Corinthians 1:21 - Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. Only the Lord infallibly knows who His saints are.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard finding them mixed together throughout scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.