Crusades Began with Reconquista
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Wrangler
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The teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles is morally superior to your teaching - “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”
Save the mission vs. kill the mission field.
Biblical / Christian pacifism doesn’t give way to the wicked. It stands firmly against them.
“The paradox of being strangers who are alien to our culture and taking seriously the biblical call to identify, suffer, and live all people, even our enemies, will be integral to our journey to discover how the ‘Bible tells us so.’”
(Dale W. Brown, Biblical Pacifism, p. 23)
The “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t fully armed, ready to kill“ philosophy not only hasn’t started that journey, it wants to kill it so that no one will.
(Dale W. Brown, Biblical Pacifism, p. 23)
The “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t fully armed, ready to kill“ philosophy not only hasn’t started that journey, it wants to kill it so that no one will.
Armour of God
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As you know but don’t follow, this is a concept which is embraced and promoted by Biblical / Christian pacifism.
“Christian Pacifism: The First Three Centuries
As participants in an illegal movement, the early Christians obviously resisted Roman domination. Yet they strived to be goid citizens. One of the most revealing descriptions of early Christians is found in the ‘Letter to Diogentus,’ from the second century:
They live in their own countries, but only as aliens. They have a share in everything as citizens, and endure everything as foreigners. … They busy themselves on earth, but their citizenship is in heaven. They obey the established laws, but in their own lives they go far beyond what the laws require. They love all men, and by all men ate persecuted. … They are put to death, and yet they are brought to life. They are poor, and yet they make many rich. … They are dishonored and in their dishonor are glorified; … They are reviled, and yet they bless; when they are affronted, they still pay due respect. When they do good, they are punished as evildoers; undergoing punishment, they rejoice because they are brought to life. They are treated by Jews as foreigners and enemies, and are hunted down by the Greeks; and all the time those who hate them find it impossible to justify their enmity. (This beautiful apology is fiund in Cyril C. Richardson, ed. Early Christian Fathers, Westminster Press, 1953, 117.)
This exceptional portrayal of early Christians provides the context for noting how the pacifist teachings of Jesus continued in the life of the apostolic church. For modern Christians who wish to identify with the early church, it is important to understand primitive Christian positions on war and peace.”
(Dale W. Brown, Biblical Pacifism, pp. 31-32)
As participants in an illegal movement, the early Christians obviously resisted Roman domination. Yet they strived to be goid citizens. One of the most revealing descriptions of early Christians is found in the ‘Letter to Diogentus,’ from the second century:
They live in their own countries, but only as aliens. They have a share in everything as citizens, and endure everything as foreigners. … They busy themselves on earth, but their citizenship is in heaven. They obey the established laws, but in their own lives they go far beyond what the laws require. They love all men, and by all men ate persecuted. … They are put to death, and yet they are brought to life. They are poor, and yet they make many rich. … They are dishonored and in their dishonor are glorified; … They are reviled, and yet they bless; when they are affronted, they still pay due respect. When they do good, they are punished as evildoers; undergoing punishment, they rejoice because they are brought to life. They are treated by Jews as foreigners and enemies, and are hunted down by the Greeks; and all the time those who hate them find it impossible to justify their enmity. (This beautiful apology is fiund in Cyril C. Richardson, ed. Early Christian Fathers, Westminster Press, 1953, 117.)
This exceptional portrayal of early Christians provides the context for noting how the pacifist teachings of Jesus continued in the life of the apostolic church. For modern Christians who wish to identify with the early church, it is important to understand primitive Christian positions on war and peace.”
(Dale W. Brown, Biblical Pacifism, pp. 31-32)
“Eileen Egan of the Catholic Worker Movement expressed it this way: ‘We were a pacifist church in the first three centuries. Augustine and others devised the just war theory, and laity were consecrated to be soldiers. The church, however, retained the pacifist witness for clergy and monastic communities. And wonderfully, the historic peace churches evolved in the 16th century to give back to us what we had at first.’”
(Dale W. Brown, Biblical Pacifism, p. 32)
This is why I say that reading church history is so important.
(Dale W. Brown, Biblical Pacifism, p. 32)
This is why I say that reading church history is so important.
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Armour of God
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Wrangler
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No you don’t. You should read the Ante Nicene Church Fathers.
Jesus, the apostles, and the early followers of Jesus don’t sound like you and don’t act like the Crusaders.
“Jesus did not advocate nonviolence merely as a technique for outwitting the enemy, but as a just means of opposing the enemy in such a way as to hold open the possibility of the enemy’s becoming just as well.”
(Walter Wink, Jesus and Nonviolence: A Third Way, p. 45)
This is a foreign concept to those who reject biblical pacifism. It wasn’t to the earliest Christians.
(Walter Wink, Jesus and Nonviolence: A Third Way, p. 45)
This is a foreign concept to those who reject biblical pacifism. It wasn’t to the earliest Christians.
Armour of God
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Armour of God
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Fast forward to the Inquisition.
What would have happened if they had behaved as Jesus and the apostles did?
Wrangler
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Thats where you are mistaken … about a great many things. Imagine how morally bankrupt your ideology has to be to hold up as your ultimate model of pacifism the guy who will kill more people than anyone in human history?
I feel embarrassed for you!
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