"Man of sin" has several epithets, one being "anti-Christ" = "false Christ."
See 2Thessalonians 2:1-11.
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Stop Believing the "Any Moment" Myth
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See 2Thessalonians 2:1-11.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Imminent rapture is a myth???:
Precious friends, let us prayerfully and Carefully study God's Word of Truth, Rightly
Divided, eh?:
God's Great ( Pre-trib ) GRACE Departure!:
1) Christ's "Revelation Of The Mystery" To Paul Taught Paul to expect the "Catching Up"
2) Since The Body Of Christ is Not to "live by sight":
All Found In God's "Revelation Of The Mystery" To Paul, For The [ Heavenly! ] Body Of Christ!
Note: Not to be Mixed Up/homogenized with, But:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)
ie:
Prophecy, pertaining to [ earthly ] Israel, on the other hand? Yes, we certainly agree with
prophecy experts that there is a NON-imminent post-trib "Second Prophesied Coming of
Christ To the earth with Signs Preceding!:
No problem at all here, but why Take The "Catching Up" Out Of The Mystery Program Of God, and then:
together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (v 31 AV)
--------
Thus yes, we conclude that we cannot dismiss and disbelieve In The Imminent Catching Up
Of The Body Of Christ To Be Judged At The Bema Seat (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV), In Heaven,
where we Will dwell forever and ever!:
-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Precious friends, we all agree that we Surely Desire God's Approval , yes?
Precious friends, let us prayerfully and Carefully study God's Word of Truth, Rightly
Divided, eh?:
God's Great ( Pre-trib ) GRACE Departure!:
1) Christ's "Revelation Of The Mystery" To Paul Taught Paul to expect the "Catching Up"
Gathering Of His Body "At Any Moment" ( Imminent! ), with No signs preceding It:
a) "...we walk By faith, not By sight ( signs )..." (2 Corinthians 5:7 AV)
b) "...then we which are alive and remain Will Be Caught Up..." 1 Thessalonians 4:17 AV)
[ Paul Expecting ( in his own day ) as we Also should Expect in ours, Correct? ]
2) Since The Body Of Christ is Not to "live by sight":
a) "Set your affection on things above, and not on things on the earth" (Colossians 3:2 AV)
b) "For our conversation [ citizenship ] is in heaven; from whence also
we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Philippians 3:20 AV)
c) Why do most prophetic experts have 'dead set' affection on "looking, waiting, and watching for"
"the man of sin, the son of perdition, The Unholy one", When Christ Taught Paul, For us,
The Body of Christ To Be, By Faith, "looking for, watching for, and patiently waiting for":
our Blessed Hope, The HOLY One, The LORD Jesus Christ!
And "Catching Up" of The Body Of Christ:
“Looking for That Blessed Hope, and The Glorious Appearing of
The Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" Titus 2:13 AV)
d) Once Again!: More "...Comforting..." "...Wholesome Words Of Christ..."
All Found In God's "Revelation Of The Mystery" To Paul, For The [ Heavenly! ] Body Of Christ!
Note: Not to be Mixed Up/homogenized with, But:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)
ie:
Prophecy, pertaining to [ earthly ] Israel, on the other hand? Yes, we certainly agree with
prophecy experts that there is a NON-imminent post-trib "Second Prophesied Coming of
Christ To the earth with Signs Preceding!:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not
give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth
mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
No problem at all here, but why Take The "Catching Up" Out Of The Mystery Program Of God, and then:
try to insert it into Prophesy here, eh?:
"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (v 31 AV)
--------
Thus yes, we conclude that we cannot dismiss and disbelieve In The Imminent Catching Up
Of The Body Of Christ To Be Judged At The Bema Seat (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV), In Heaven,
where we Will dwell forever and ever!:
"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building
of God, an house not made with hands, Eternal In the Heavens." (2 Corinthians 5:2 AV)
Amen.-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Precious friends, we all agree that we Surely Desire God's Approval , yes?
@GRACE ambassador
The rapture cannot be imminent because this has not happened yet:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV) 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The rapture cannot be imminent because this has not happened yet:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV) 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Thanks precious friend, appreciate your valuable input.
imho, God's Sound Doctrine Cannot Be Established By "using one verse only" ( as Many think? ),
so with These Bible Study Rules, I also studied this out in my 18-month:
God's Great ( Pre-trib ) GRACE Departure! Venture, if you care to take a look 
-------------
Part (9) God's Removal Of His Body!
Precious friend(s) about midway of 17 parts, for your Careful consideration:
Please let us all prayerfully ask God's Question, Through His One Grace apostle, Paul,
"What Saith The Scripture?":
”...he who withholdeth/hindereth Until Taken Out of the way.
And Then shall that Wicked be revealed!...” (2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a AV)
First, Carefully Note The 'Timing Words' Of God In This Important Passage! Amen?
Next!:
Many are having Great difficulty interpreting The "falling away ( greek apostasia )"
In verse 3. Some would have us to believe that "He who withholdeth/hindereth" is:
Actually interpreted as "those Great number today who are going into apostasy,
departing 'from the faith.'"
So we wish to kindly/humbly ask: When The last one has 'fallen away', does that then mean:
"they were Taken Out of the way"? And, only Then will "The Wicked one be revealed"?
Did they then "take themselves" out of the way? Does that make any sense?
More sensible, if this idea is true, would be:
"They who withholdeth/hindereth" [ Changing Scripture ] Correct?
So What is "The Departure ( 'Taken Out Of the way' ) Truth" That God Gave Paul in This Passage?
We perceive it is not a Great departure "from the faith," as these propose, because:
A) Did we not Already have that, almost 2000 Years ago?:
"...all they which are in Asia be turned away from me [ Paul ]!..." (2 Timothy 1:15 AV)
In addition, God Revealed To Paul, this Plain And Clear Statement, For "our Last Days!":
"Now The Spirit Speaketh Expressly, that in the latter times Some shall depart
from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils!"
(1 Timothy 4:1 AV)
So, may we humbly And kindly ask: Why are many Still looking for:
"a Great Apostasy ("interpretation"? of "falling away")" and for the man of sin, son of Perdition?
B) Please bear with, for a moment, this Very brief Greek lesson?:
In 1 Timothy 4:1 AV that "departure { greek aphestemi }" is "from the faith!"
cp Hebrews 3:12 AV: "Departing { "same" greek aphestemi )" Is "From The Living God!!"
Thus, with a Different Original word, a departure { apostasia } 'from the faith' interpretation
would be incorrect, Correct?
[ btw, I am a simpleton, not a language scholar, thus this explanation above will be
my only brief attempt at such a thing. The rest will just be plain English. Thanks. ]
to be continued...
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Continued: God's Removal Of His Body { From earth! }
C) Double Confirmation For "The Departure" Is:
D) Triple Confirmation For The Great Grace 'Departure From the earth!' Is Again Also In
E) Quadruple Confirmation Is Comparing This One difficult/obscure verse with:
These Twenty Seven [ Not just one, eh? ] Plain And Clear Passages About
The Body Of Christ, Which Christ, from Heaven, Instructed Paul to teach us to be:
q: looking for The Wicked one, First? or?:
Thus, It Is Very Plain And Clear, According To God's Precious Word Of Truth,
{ Left In God's Context! Amen? }, That!:
The Reliable Scripture Interpreting ( Rule #6 ) Itself, for "The falling away" Is:
"God's Great Grace Departure!" Of The Body Of Christ
{ Removing "he, who hindereth/withholdeth" } Away From the earth!" Correct?
F) The 'Timing' belief matters, Because It Determines how one “Prepares!” Amen?:
to be continued...
C) Double Confirmation For "The Departure" Is:
What God Revealed To Paul to teach the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians, Was:
our "changing in the twinkling of an eye" in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 AV
Also, In God's Immediate Context ( is king? ) Here!:
"Now we beseech you, brethren, By The Coming Of our Lord Jesus Christ, And by
our { Departure? } gathering together Unto Him!..." (2 Thessalonians 2:1 AV), Correct?
D) Triple Confirmation For The Great Grace 'Departure From the earth!' Is Again Also In
God's Immediate Context Itself:
...he, the righteous 'withholder/restrainer' Is Removed By God "First!"
And not the Unrighteous apostasizers ' removing themselves,' Correct?
The [ Heavenly ] Gospel Of Grace Is Ended (Romans through Philemon), By God, Making
by Removing all of 'His { Heavenly } ambassadors of Grace', Before:
Declaring Judgment and War on an UNbelieving world! Amen?
The 'man of sin/son of Perdition' Cannot be revealed Until The Church [ he, "the
one New man" (Ephesians 2:15 AV) ], the "righteous restrainer" is Removed Away
Then begins The Time Of Jacob's Trouble!":
Since God's Grace And God's Judgment/Wrath Are "Mutually Exclusive!!" Amen?
E) Quadruple Confirmation Is Comparing This One difficult/obscure verse with:
These Twenty Seven [ Not just one, eh? ] Plain And Clear Passages About
The Body Of Christ, Which Christ, from Heaven, Instructed Paul to teach us to be:
"looking, watching, and ( patiently ) waiting for" The Following?:
The Holy One, The Lord Jesus Christ!
q: looking for The Wicked one, First? or?:
Looking, watching, and ( patiently ) waiting, For The Lord Jesus Christ! First!!?
Thus, It Is Very Plain And Clear, According To God's Precious Word Of Truth,
{ Left In God's Context! Amen? }, That!:
The Reliable Scripture Interpreting ( Rule #6 ) Itself, for "The falling away" Is:
"God's Great Grace Departure!" Of The Body Of Christ
{ Removing "he, who hindereth/withholdeth" } Away From the earth!" Correct?
F) The 'Timing' belief matters, Because It Determines how one “Prepares!” Amen?:
So, Which is Better?:
1) "men" instructing watchmen to look for antichrist, And preparing by Selfishly
Hoarding Up seven years of food for famine, to "endure to the end of Great
Tribulation!," which is contradictory to how other so-called ' prophets'
prepare, saying 'leave the city/country'.
Thus, All of them, in Confusion "Mixed Up, living By Sight [ signs ]!"?
Or:Looking, Watching, And Waiting For [ our "Blessed Hope!" ] The Lord Jesus Christ!...
...While loving our neighbor, And Selflessly working to use God's { Provided } money to
"give to them in need," while performing All 'good works' For God, in Order To Be:
►►► Prepared For Judgment In Heaven! ◄◄◄
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15 cp "gold, silver, and precious stones" in:
to be continued...
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Continued: God's Removal of His Body:
G) Finally:
Conclusion: Only God's [ Pre-trib ] Great Grace Departure For "His Removal Of His Body!"
=============
And my complete outline, if you wish to ask about anything further?:
After Many years I finally "took time off" for 18 months, to see If I actually
had The Truth, The Whole [ All The Scriptures ] Truth, And Nothing But
The Truth About God's Imminent "Pre-trib" rapture:
Brief outline (hopefully "decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40 AV):
(1) am I using The Right Bible?
(2) am I obeying God's Excellent "study" Rules!?*
(3a) God's WORD Of Truth, Rightly Divided! - Brief Introduction...
(3b) Three "Ages" Rightly Divided! = God's Timelines?
(4) Which "Gospel!" Makes Way For Which "Gospel"?
(5) Great Tribulation? Or tribulations/Great Grace Departure!
(6) Pre-TOJT Grace Departure "Expectations!"?
(7) God's Heavenly UPlook For His Body!?
(8) Watching, Waiting, And Looking for Whom! or, for whom And "signs"?
(9) He "who withholdeth/hindereth" Until "taken Out!?"
(10) Day of CHRIST vs Day Of The LORD vs Day Of God!
(11) Confidence in death/resurrection!, Or, in living/glorification!?
(12) CHRIST Will Return "Without Warning!"?
(13)The Two "Trumps" Of God!, In His "Age Of Grace!!"?
(14) Meeting Him "In The Air!" On The Way To Heaven!! vs U-turn (theology?)
(16) Post Departure "Deception! Question"?
Conclusion (2 parts):
(Part 17) Conclusion to God's [ Pre-trib ] Great GRACE Departure!
(Mystery resurrection)
All the Colored Parts [ links ] are available for viewing, the rest are in my old files,
awaiting the best 'humble And kind' discussers of this Very Important Doctrine, ok?
End of Outline. Let me know if any of the other parts 1-16 May be of interest to you?...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Precious friend(s), appreciate all your prayerful and Careful attention in this Very Important Matter.
May The Wonderful Head Of The Body, The Glorified Lord Jesus Help us all to:
Amen.
Most Important being God's Grace, Peace, Mercy, and Love! Amen?
Always appreciate kind and humble discussions! Blessings my precious friend(s)!!
G) Finally:
If Any precious reader Still believes one Will See the man of sin,
son of Perdition First, and enter Into Great Tribulation, "under his {Satan's}
Governmental reign," Then does one not have The Following Scriptural
Dilemma? Please Prayerfully/Carefully Consider:
Out-Of-Place Problem, From God And His Word!:
All members of The Body Of Christ Are Instructed, By God, To:
"be subject to governmental authorities, And pray For them!"
How does that then work out (Disobedience?), for the Body Of Christ members,
who "Will Go Into" the Great Tribulation, as the government Will Be Under The
Control Of Satan and the Beast! (Revelation 13:4 AV)?
Conclusion: Only God's [ Pre-trib ] Great Grace Departure For "His Removal Of His Body!"
makes the most sense, Correct?
End of Part (9) he "who withholdeth/hindereth" Until "taken Out!?"=============
And my complete outline, if you wish to ask about anything further?:
After Many years I finally "took time off" for 18 months, to see If I actually
had The Truth, The Whole [ All The Scriptures ] Truth, And Nothing But
The Truth About God's Imminent "Pre-trib" rapture:
Brief outline (hopefully "decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40 AV):
(1) am I using The Right Bible?
(2) am I obeying God's Excellent "study" Rules!?*
(3a) God's WORD Of Truth, Rightly Divided! - Brief Introduction...
(3b) Three "Ages" Rightly Divided! = God's Timelines?
(4) Which "Gospel!" Makes Way For Which "Gospel"?
(5) Great Tribulation? Or tribulations/Great Grace Departure!
(6) Pre-TOJT Grace Departure "Expectations!"?
(7) God's Heavenly UPlook For His Body!?
(8) Watching, Waiting, And Looking for Whom! or, for whom And "signs"?
(9) He "who withholdeth/hindereth" Until "taken Out!?"
(10) Day of CHRIST vs Day Of The LORD vs Day Of God!
(11) Confidence in death/resurrection!, Or, in living/glorification!?
(12) CHRIST Will Return "Without Warning!"?
(13)The Two "Trumps" Of God!, In His "Age Of Grace!!"?
(14) Meeting Him "In The Air!" On The Way To Heaven!! vs U-turn (theology?)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Back To earth?
(15) Preparation For [ Heavenly ] Judgment!?(16) Post Departure "Deception! Question"?
Conclusion (2 parts):
(Part 17) Conclusion to God's [ Pre-trib ] Great GRACE Departure!
(Mystery resurrection)
All the Colored Parts [ links ] are available for viewing, the rest are in my old files,
awaiting the best 'humble And kind' discussers of this Very Important Doctrine, ok?
End of Outline. Let me know if any of the other parts 1-16 May be of interest to you?...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Precious friend(s), appreciate all your prayerful and Careful attention in this Very Important Matter.
May The Wonderful Head Of The Body, The Glorified Lord Jesus Help us all to:
"Prove All things; hold fast That Which Is Good!" (1 Thessalonians 5:21 AV)
Amen.
Most Important being God's Grace, Peace, Mercy, and Love! Amen?
Always appreciate kind and humble discussions! Blessings my precious friend(s)!!
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JimKnox
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No. apostasia means Apostasy, a bad thing, a moral departure. It has a fixed definition that cannot be changed as Pretrib tries to do. One of the reasons the Apostasy happens is because some people deny what Apostasy even means, changing it to a physical departure when it does not and can not mean that.
TribulationSigns
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This guy appears to have embraced the false doctrine promoted by Thomas Ice, who attempts to redefine the Greek word apostasia as the physical removal of the Church to heaven rather than the falling away from the faith within the professing Church. This is a classic example of forcing Scripture to conform to a preconceived pretribulation rapture doctrine instead of allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture. Paul warned of a falling away, not a flying away! (2 Thessalonians 2:3; 1 Timothy 4:1).
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Lol
Do a study on it.
You are 100% wrong.
It means "from standing"...ahem, REMOVAL.
" from the faith" is implied.
Now what were you saying about the pretrib doctrine that is boggus?
You guys have such a poorly thought out doctrine.
I actually agree with you, that it ACTUALLY IS referring to a spiritual famine.
But it is comical to see you guys struggle with the LITERAL GREEK, to get in an accusation frenzy.
Do you realize your doctrine FORCES you guys to reframe the rapture, to a dynamic of "there is only one coming" fallacy? .
IOW your entire deal is built on error.
Yikes!!!!
The word is found in two places in the bible. One is here in 2Th 2:3 and the other is Act 21:21 where they accuse Paul of teaching "apostacy". It was used in the same way in classical greek (Attic) as well. As much as pre-tribbers try to twist the meaning the common usage is well documented. Please present your "study" results that indicate otherwise.
Yes!!!
Really????? HOW??? Am I no longer saved? What's so dangerous about it?
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand")
The word apostasía means....stand away from.
"Stand away from" has a physical meaning to it. A physical departure is implied.
As I said NO WHERE is there a mentioning of a spiritual revolt or falling away. These verses are about the "gathering". That's the context.
In fact some of the earliest translations used the word DEPART...
The 1526 Tyndale bible used DEPARTURE
The 1535 Coverdale bible used DEPARTURE
The 1539 Crammer bible used DEPARTURE
The 1540 Great bible used DEPARTURE
The 1560 Geneva bible used DEPARTING
The 1576 Breeches bible used DEPARTING
The 1582 Rhiems bible used REVOLT...The first complete English Catholic translation.
The 1583 Beza bible used DEPARTING
The 1608 Geneva bible used DEPARTING
If you noticed the word was improperly changed in 1582.
Note: The Rheims translators explicitly rejected "departing" because they wanted to frame the text as a prophecy against the Protestant Reformation. By using "revolt," they directly accused the Protestants of causing the end-times apostasia by revolting against the Roman Catholic Church and the authority of the Pope.
The changing of the world was a theological bias based reason ...rather than a literal direct translation.
The word "revolt" influenced the King James Version and over time became the incorrect standard or perception of the word "apostate" seen in modern bibles.
The joy of an Amillennialist should have is that as christians if we are alive at the resurrection/rapture event...we will depart, be taken, caught up, stand away from with Jesus and not experience the wrath of the "day of the Lord"
We should encourage each other with those words. 1 Thes 4:18
You might be deceived by the first jesus who shows up and end up worshiping him, thus getting caught up in the great apostasy.
It is used as rebellion in the Septuagint in several places. It is NEVER used as a departure from a physical place...only authority:
| Passage | Context |
|---|---|
| Joshua 22:22 | Israel's concern about rebellion against the LORD |
| 2 Chronicles 29:19 | Objects associated with unfaithfulness during the reign of Ahaz |
| 2 Chronicles 33:19 | Manasseh's unfaithfulness and sins |
| Jeremiah 2:19 | Israel's wickedness and turning away from the LORD |
| 1 Maccabees 2:15 | The king's representatives pressuring Jews to abandon their religious practices |
The two New Testament occurrences
A. Acts 21:21 — “to forsake Moses”
The Greek phrase is:ἀποστασίαν διδάσκεις ἀπὸ Μωϋσέως
apostasian didaskeis apo Mōuseōs
“You teach … to forsake Moses.”
Paul is accused of teaching Jews living among Gentiles to abandon Moses, including circumcision and Jewish customs. Here, apostasia clearly describes an alleged abandonment of an established religious commitment.
Notice the construction: ἀποστασίαν ἀπὸ Μωϋσέως — apostasian apo Mōuseōs, literally, “apostasy/departure from Moses.”
The word itself does not mean “rapture” in this passage.
B. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 — “the falling away”
The Greek reads:ἐὰν μὴ ἔλθῃ ἡ ἀποστασία πρῶτον
ean mē elthē hē apostasia prōton
“Unless the apostasy comes first.”
The King James Version translates apostasia as “a falling away.” Other translations use “the rebellion” or “the apostasy.”
The surrounding passage says that the day in question will not come until the apostasia occurs first and the man of lawlessness is revealed.
The key question is whether apostasia here means:
- Religious defection: a departure from the faith or rebellion against God.
- Political or spiritual revolt: a rebellion against established authority.
- Physical departure: a departure from one place, an interpretation proposed by some in discussions of the rapture.
3. How was apostasia used in the Greek Old Testament?
The Septuagint (LXX), the ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, uses this word in contexts involving rebellion or religious unfaithfulness.| Passage | Context |
|---|---|
| Joshua 22:22 | Israel's concern about rebellion against the LORD |
| 2 Chronicles 29:19 | Objects associated with unfaithfulness during the reign of Ahaz |
| 2 Chronicles 33:19 | Manasseh's unfaithfulness and sins |
| Jeremiah 2:19 | Israel's wickedness and turning away from the LORD |
| 1 Maccabees 2:15 | The king's representatives pressuring Jews to abandon their religious practices |
4. Does apostasia ever mean a physical departure?
This is the important distinction.The Greek lexicon Liddell–Scott–Jones records the noun as meaning “defection” or “revolt,” and also lists a less common sense of “departure” or “disappearance.” Therefore, it would be inaccurate to claim that physical departure is impossible as a meaning of the Greek word.
However, a possible dictionary meaning is not proof that a particular passage uses that meaning.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the immediate context and the noun's established biblical usage favor rebellion or apostasy. To establish a physical departure interpretation, one would need additional contextual and historical-linguistic evidence.
One final distinction: The related verb ἀφίστημι (aphistēmi, Strong's G868) can mean “depart,” “withdraw,” or “fall away.” That does not automatically make every occurrence of the related noun apostasia a physical departure.
My conclusion: apostasia can express the idea of departure in a broad sense, but its biblical usage most clearly supports defection, rebellion, or abandonment of a religious commitment. Whether 2 Thessalonians 2:3 refers to a specific end-times apostasy is a contextual and interpretive question, not something the word alone settles.
The context is clear...."apostacy" means to depart from the faith. Any other vain attempt at defining it as a physical departure is clutching at straws
Why would I be deceived? I know when Jesus when shows up...we go up.
The danger is with your belief. You don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. In fact it is YOU who is looking for Jesus to show up and establish His kingdom. When the false Jesus arrives why would I follow him? On the other hand it is likely you'll follow the false Jesus when he shows up being a believer this Jesus is the real Jesus.
The rider on the white horse of Rev 6 is a likely candidate for your deception.....
So, I ask you again...why would it be dangerous for me?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Did you read my post?
I am NOT SAYING IT IS INCORRECTLY translated.
I am saying you guys never look anything up.
AS YOU JUST SHOWCASED.
apostasia
apostasia
G646
n_ Nom Sg f
FROM-STANDing.
(Hello...IT SIMPLY TRANSLATES "DEPARTURE".
THE LITERAL would read "a departure first".
It is simply a fact.)
The comedy is that WHEN THE LITERAL IS PRESENTED, It invokes such scrambling and dancing around.
I have HONESTLY looked at it and agree it is a departure from the faith.( studied it almost 50 yrs ago)
The difference is:
1) it has no actual bearing in the debate as some "smoking gun"
2) I can read the literal translation in rest, and accept what is there. Or go with what is implied.( from the faith)
3) you guys have no idea that either way it HARMONIZES PERFECTLY with the pretrib rapture model.
IOW the difference is I have no dog in that fight. I am only correcting what you guys have not studied.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
I could also say the same thing about you.
Maybe you will take the mark when you witness nobody "going through" the trib, and are faced with taking the mark or dying.
Or maybe since you guys have a doctrine of not looking for Jesus, you will fall for the AC deception anyway, since you guys reject the pretrib rapture verses.
( akin to rejecting the one that wrote them...ahem, Jesus)
This is just sheer ignorance.
No, it supports post trib to anyone with an unbiased opinion.
LOL.... "we" have not studied? That's a laugh. I have studied the word much deeper that the cursory google searches you pass off as "study"
Let's see what AT Robertson(greatest greek scholar of all time) has to say:
Your errant argument is DESTROYED
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