The argument for God you’ve never heard

Rhetro · Monday at 1:48 PM

amigo de christo said:
rhetro i just peeked and seen you were last here fourteen minutes ago viewing this thread .
That means you had time to read some of what i wrote .
Do explain please . Cause what i say to one i say to all ANY ORGANIZATION is capable of falling .
NOT THE CHURCH , but the institution can . IF NOT
OH IF NOT then why the great schism . PROVING my point exactly . OH THEY CAN and OH THEY DO fall .

Did Christ not promise in Matthew 16:18 that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church?

marks · Monday at 1:50 PM

markalan said:
What is the God given mechanism whereby we learn about the world from the moment we are born to the day we die?

The Bible, and the Holy Spirit, and godly teachers. Aside from that, we have our senses, and our intellects, which often lead us wrongly.

Much love!

marks · Monday at 1:55 PM

Rhetro said:
Went through both links. So you’re an evidentialist.

The problem with the evidentialist approach is that by reducing the Sovereign Creator to a statistical probability of "more likely than not" based on raw scientific data, you are accidentally kneeling before the idol of secular empiricism and treating autonomous human reason as a judge sitting above God, rather than recognizing that Christ as the Logos is the absolute, necessary prerequisite for logic and science to exist in the first place.

I think it can be a very difficult thing to truly come to understand one's own intellect is so faulty as to not be relied upon, and so bow the mind to Christ, in a true humility.

Much love!

marks · Monday at 2:05 PM

Rhetro said:
Exactly.

This is very much like saying that we have a conscience proves the work of a Creator in us, as this innate sense of "right" and "wrong" does not form from an evolutionary process.

Much love!

Rhetro · Monday at 2:38 PM

marks said:
The Bible, and the Holy Spirit, and godly teachers. Aside from that, we have our senses, and our intellects, which often lead us wrongly.

Much love!

He asked what the God-given mechanism was whereby we learn about the world from birth to death.

A few things to consider:

-An infant cannot read the Bible

-If our senses and intellects are just secular tools that mostly lead us wrongly, then how do non-believing scientists successfully map the human genome, calculate rocket trajectories, or build bridges? By separating human intellect from God, this view accidentally agrees with the atheist that the human mind can operate completely independently of Christ.

Our senses and intellect are not broken accidents, they were designed by the Logos to read the orderly principles He embedded into the cosmos. While the Fall darkened our spiritual perception, it did not destroy our mind's physical mechanism, which is why we can still trust our faculties to learn about God's creation.

marks · Monday at 2:48 PM

Rhetro said:
He asked what the God-given mechanism was whereby we learn about the world from birth to death.

A few things to consider:

-An infant cannot read the Bible

-If our senses and intellects are just secular tools that mostly lead us wrongly, then how do non-believing scientists successfully map the human genome, calculate rocket trajectories, or build bridges? By separating human intellect from God, this view accidentally agrees with the atheist that the human mind can operate completely independently of Christ.

Our senses and intellect are not broken accidents, they were designed by the Logos to read the orderly principles He embedded into the cosmos. While the Fall darkened our spiritual perception, it did not destroy our mind's physical mechanism, which is why we can still trust our faculties to learn about God's creation.

As I see it, what we gain from our senses are opinions based on our perceptions, and oftentimes colored by our biases.

So then we can learn haphazardly through our senses, and correctly as our teaching comes from God.

You mention building bridges and mapping the genome, isn't that all glorified counting? Looking at what we can see and numbering the sum of what we find?

I don't say that the intellect didn't come from God, but I think it's broken, and cannot be trusted. They read the genome, but fail to find the Writer. No?

Much love!

Rhetro · Monday at 3:30 PM

marks said:
As I see it, what we gain from our senses are opinions based on our perceptions, and oftentimes colored by our biases.

So then we can learn haphazardly through our senses, and correctly as our teaching comes from God.

You mention building bridges and mapping the genome, isn't that all glorified counting? Looking at what we can see and numbering the sum of what we find?

I don't say that the intellect didn't come from God, but I think it's broken, and cannot be trusted. They read the genome, but fail to find the Writer. No?

Much love!

Well dismissing structural engineering and genetics as "glorified counting" misses how logic works, you cannot see or count the immaterial laws of physics, which require an abstract intellect to process.

Marvelloustime · Tuesday at 3:50 AM

amigo de christo said:
i never said the one true church does not exist . Friend i am of it and in it .
I am saying that instituions can and DO GO wrong .
IF NOT , then what the heck happened during the great schism . SOMEONE WENT WRONG
and the other side said NO MAS , we aint with you anymore .
I WOULD do the same myself .
in fact upon reading up on the quick history
they were having problems long before that .
SO its NOT WRONG to flee a place , if even said place originally did make the canon .
IF a place falls , GET OUT .
And many have alerady fallen . AND NOW in the last hour
we got us an ecumeincal harlot trying to bring us all back home to mama . ONLY DO REMEMbER
I aint in the business of sitting under A HARLOT .

@amigo de christo

Marvelloustime · Tuesday at 3:51 AM

amigo de christo said:
so who left who . See my point yet . WHY did the eastern split . IF they were both the original church .
I aint saying they should not have split . I would have ran from the
unholy RCC myself . EVEN IN THE DAYS of constantine .
But if what you say is true , if by leaving the church that gave us the canon is wrong
THEN EVEN THE ORTHODOX were wrong . OOPS , but as said i WOULD HAVE FLED THE RCC TOO .
JUST cause a church can give us the bible
DONT MEAN IT CANT GO WRONG friend . Now lets all bible up again . Bible time .

@amigo de christo

Marvelloustime · Tuesday at 3:59 AM

amigo de christo said:
ANY instituion can become corrupt . ANY .
paul himself had warned how men would come in to make desciples of themselves .
WE cannot trust in an instution . WE MUST TRUST IN GOD and then test all men and do so often and always .
Cause the great schism is proof they can GO WRONG . of course i would go back father than that .
But i will leave it as that for now .
IF not sitting under a church that gave us the canon is wrong , THEN WHY THE SPLIT .
Oh i can answer that queswtion . cause ONE SIDE saw deadly error in the other and said
ITS TIME to give that one the BOOT . i would have done the same .
And i still do the same . I aint sitting under anyone just cause they claim they gave us the bible .
I EXAMINE them . See the point yet . and on that note
YOU better examine hard even your own side , THEY IN BED with ecumeincalism
just like the protestant realm is ,
JUST like the RCC is . THEY fleecing us all now .
Any church , no matter if it can c laim the gospel and yet lips inclusivism , IS NOT ANY place i am gonna sit under .
I suggest we all return TO THIS BIBLE so many cliam their church gave us .
IF WE DO , we gonna see a massive problem has come down upon them all now and its getting worse all the time .

@amigo de christo

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The argument for God you’ve never heard

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