The argument for God you’ve never heard

[Rhetro]

But even in the days of constantine and that church , massive error had already began .

If "massive error" took over the Church during the days of Constantine, then you must throw out the Nicene Creed, the doctrine of the Trinity, and the divinity of Christ, because those exact doctrines were formally defended and codified by "that church" during and after Constantine's reign.

But i got good news , the church has always existed and still continues to this day .
Its the non compromising sheep scattered around the nations . They who follow Christ

That Church is not invisible, it is visible with historical continuity and authority through apostolic succession. Christ did not find a spiritual fan club running on vibes. If the Church is merely only those who believe, then you have to include every sect that claims it’s guided by the Holy Spirit yet has different beliefs. What does James say? “Even the demons believe, and tremble”.

Take the non-denominationalists for example, they’re in an even worse predicament because they are their own authority. It’s them, their Bible, and their basement. Non-denominationalists operate in a vacuum. They claim to have "no religion" and "no denomination," which means they have no official creeds, no history, and no accountability.

 

[amigo de christo]

If "massive error" took over the Church during the days of Constantine, then you must throw out the Nicene Creed, the doctrine of the Trinity, and the divinity of Christ, because those exact doctrines were formally defended and codified by "that church" during and after Constantine's reign.


That Church is not invisible, it is visible with historical continuity and authority through apostolic succession. Christ did not find a spiritual fan club running on vibes. If the Church is merely only those who believe, then you have to include every sect that claims it’s guided by the Holy Spirit yet has different beliefs. What does James say? “Even the demons believe, and tremble”.

Take the non-denominationalists for example, they’re in an even worse predicament because they are their own authority. It’s them, their Bible, and their basement. Non-denominationalists operate in a vacuum. They claim to have "no religion" and "no denomination," which means they have no official creeds, no history, and no accountability.

Oh it long took over in those days .
And just cause one can spout certain truths
it dont mean they KNOW TRUTH or ev en FOLLOW CHRIST .
Kinda scary how that gets done a lot . You go into churches
who might have solid t ruths on their walls
And yet how contrary they walk to Christ . JUST LIKE THE RCC LEADERS and their popes did .
Sorry friend but you gonna have do to better than THAT to convince me .
But i have an idea . Lets examine what we beleive .
Do you in any way kneel before an image . as leaders blow incense to it .
DO you pray to s aints or mary . lets begin with this .

 

[Rhetro]

DO you pray to s aints or mary . lets begin with this .

I am Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. The RCC are the first Protestants who broke away in 1054 from us, the Church. Their heresy of the papacy had a compounding effect where Protestantism is its loyal child where each individual is their own pope.

We don’t pray to Mary or the Saints, we ask for their intercession. God explicitly commanded Moses to make images of Cherubim for the Ark (Exodus 25:18) and ordered incense to be burned continually before Him (Exodus 30:8). Revelation 8:4 explicitly shows the smoke of the incense ascending with the prayers of the Saints in heaven. We do not 'worship' wood and paint, we honor the persons they reflect, recognizing that Christ's Incarnation made the invisible God visible.

Oh it long took over in those days .
And just cause one can spout certain truths

You are failing to address the structural collapse of your own worldview. If the visible Church that codified the Trinity, defined the divinity of Christ, and compiled the New Testament canon was an apostate "unholy entity" that didn't know the truth, then the foundation of your entire faith is completely compromised. You are claiming that the Holy Spirit allowed an unholy, apostate machine to decide which books belong in your Bible. If you cannot trust the visible Church that gave you the Scriptures, you have no logical or historical reason to trust the Scriptures themselves.

Who decided which books go in the Bible? Certainly the Bible didn’t fall from the sky.

 

[amigo de christo]

I am Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. The RCC are the first Protestants who broke away from the us, the Church. Their heresy of the papacy had a compounding effect where Protestantism is its loyal child where the individual is their own pope.

We don’t pray to Mary or the Saints, we ask for their intercession. God explicitly commanded Moses to make images of Cherubim for the Ark (Exodus 25:18) and ordered incense to be burned continually before Him (Exodus 30:8). Revelation 8:4 explicitly shows the smoke of the incense ascending with the prayers of the Saints in heaven. We do not 'worship' wood and paint, we honor the persons they reflect, recognizing that Christ's Incarnation made the invisible God visible.




You are failing to address the structural collapse of your own worldview. If the visible Church that codified the Trinity, defined the divinity of Christ, and compiled the New Testament canon was an apostate "unholy entity" that didn't know the truth, then the foundation of your entire faith is completely compromised. You are claiming that the Holy Spirit allowed an unholy, apostate machine to decide which books belong in your Bible. If you cannot trust the visible Church that gave you the Scriptures, you have no logical or historical reason to trust the Scriptures themselves.

pardner if you are Asking them for their intercession , you are praying to them .
WE need only to pray TO GOD in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST .
So you are saying you pray T OGOD for their intercession . ME oh my . bad news my friend . real bad news .
JESUS is my interecessor , not mary , not the saints already gone .
Now i can ask YOU to pray for me , or perhaps i can ask You for help .
Just because a church knows the trinity does not mean it follows GOD .
for pete sakes man . look at how many in even the protestant realm can claim such
and THEY in large DONT follow HIM either .
So the RCC says iTS the one true church , the greek orthodox says its the one true church .
The jw says the same . the mormon said the same .
WANNA Know whta they all have in common . ERRORS and sure love to dress up , be seen of men
and called very grand titles by men .
When i witness to the jw , THEY say OUR men over our watchtower are the true ones of GOD .
And the funny thing is they used to rail on the RCC and said THEY WORSHIP a pope .
KINDA ODD , seeing they worship MEN TOO .
The one true church is simply the sheep . and of course their are teachers and elders and etc .
But all must be tested . and i already found error in your response
about how you said you pray TO GOD for their , THEIR intercession . But i just bet
you wont budge an inch and will remain stuck in that doctirne . CAUSE Y OUR church taught you it . that is the problem
with so many . and its why they are being decieved . WE must bible up now .
Oh wait are you gonna tell me the same thing the RCC does , A protestant , a jw
THAT I cant learn the bible for my self lest i sit under THEM or YOUR MEN .
AGAIN that is why you all are being misled .

 

[Rhetro]

pardner if you are Asking them for their intercession , you are praying to them .
WE need only to pray TO GOD in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST .
So you are saying you pray T OGOD for their intercession . ME oh my . bad news my friend . real bad news .
JESUS is my interecessor , not mary , not the saints already gone .
Now i can ask YOU to pray for me , or perhaps i can ask You for help .
Just because a church knows the trinity does not mean it follows GOD .
for pete sakes man . look at how many in even the protestant realm can claim such
and THEY in large DONT follow HIM either .
So the RCC says iTS the one true church , the greek orthodox says its the one true church .
The jw says the same . the mormon said the same .
WANNA Know whta they all have in common . ERRORS and sure love to dress up , be seen of men
and called very grand titles by men .
When i witness to the jw , THEY say OUR men over our watchtower are the true ones of GOD .
And the funny thing is they used to rail on the RCC and said THEY WORSHIP a pope .
KINDA ODD , seeing they worship MEN TOO .
The one true church is simply the sheep . and of course their are teachers and elders and etc .
But all must be tested . and i already found error in your response
about how you said you pray TO GOD for their , THEIR intercession . But i just bet
you wont budge an inch and will remain stuck in that doctirne . CAUSE Y OUR church taught you it . that is the problem
with so many . and its why they are being decieved . WE must bible up now .
Oh wait are you gonna tell me the same thing the RCC does , A protestant , a jw
THAT I cant learn the bible for my self lest i sit under THEM or YOUR MEN .
AGAIN that is why you all are being misled .

We gave you the Bible. The Church decided which books go into the Bible, do you think the Bible fell from the sky?

Nobody outside the Church Christ founded is in any position to tell us what true Christianity is.

 

[amigo de christo]

We gave you the Bible. The Church decided which books go into the Bible, do you think the Bible fell from the sky?

wanna hear something real scary .
Many , oh i say many of the jews , their scholars and etc
would faithfully recopy Torah for the generations .
BUT BELIEVE ME when i say GOD was NOT well pleased with them .
just cause GOD allowed men to order up the right bible ,
DONT MEAN such men could not later FALL .
HECK how many times do you yourself see a man that can even say HEY
This is the bible , i beleive what it says , i can do what it says
ONLY THEY A FALSE PROPHET just like joel osteen .
JUST cause they so called gave us the bible means naught when they follow NOT THE GOD , THE CHRIST of said bible .
IT was peter who basically got the writings of the apostles together .
MEN just later kept recopying such and then put a order on it .
But just because they had held those letters , DOES NOT mean they , as in those under the RCC
even knew or followed GOD . Even one of their own
called the RCC the HARLOT . yeah . he got that right . but even he had errors .
IF WE WANT TRUTH , OPEN bibLE and learn it for yourself . that is a fact too .

 

[Marvelloustime]

@amigo de christo

wanna hear something real scary .
Many , oh i say many of the jews , their scholars and etc
would faithfully recopy Torah for the generations .
BUT BELIEVE ME when i say GOD was NOT well pleased with them .
just cause GOD allowed men to order up the right bible ,
DONT MEAN such men could not later FALL .
HECK how many times do you yourself see a man that can even say HEY
This is the bible , i beleive what it says , i can do what it says
ONLY THEY A FALSE PROPHET just like joel osteen .
JUST cause they so called gave us the bible means naught when they follow NOT THE GOD , THE CHRIST of said bible .
IT was peter who basically got the writings of the apostles together .
MEN just later kept recopying such and then put a order on it .
But just because they had held those letters , DOES NOT mean they , as in those under the RCC
even knew or followed GOD . Even one of their own
called the RCC the HARLOT . yeah . he got that right . but even he had errors .
IF WE WANT TRUTH , OPEN bibLE and learn it for yourself . that is a fact too .

 

[amigo de christo]

I am Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. The RCC are the first Protestants who broke away in 1054 from us, the Church. Their heresy of the papacy had a compounding effect where Protestantism is its loyal child where each individual is their own pope.

We don’t pray to Mary or the Saints, we ask for their intercession. God explicitly commanded Moses to make images of Cherubim for the Ark (Exodus 25:18) and ordered incense to be burned continually before Him (Exodus 30:8). Revelation 8:4 explicitly shows the smoke of the incense ascending with the prayers of the Saints in heaven. We do not 'worship' wood and paint, we honor the persons they reflect, recognizing that Christ's Incarnation made the invisible God visible.




You are failing to address the structural collapse of your own worldview. If the visible Church that codified the Trinity, defined the divinity of Christ, and compiled the New Testament canon was an apostate "unholy entity" that didn't know the truth, then the foundation of your entire faith is completely compromised. You are claiming that the Holy Spirit allowed an unholy, apostate machine to decide which books belong in your Bible. If you cannot trust the visible Church that gave you the Scriptures, you have no logical or historical reason to trust the Scriptures themselves.

Who decided which books go in the Bible? Certainly the Bible didn’t fall from the sky.

Okay . so WHO is right . THE RCC or THE GREEK orthodox . both cliam
they gave us the bible . DO you see my point yet . IF it just because a church gave us THE BIBLE
means no ma tter what we stick to that church . THEN SOMEONE boo booed .
WAS IT THE RCC or was it the GREEK .orthodox . AND if you all both were once the same church
THEN ONE OF YOU is GUILTY of abandoning the one true church . AND
if you then try and say YOUR SIDE LEFT , THEN OOPSY according to your own words , YOUR SIDE is guilty of abandong
the one true church .
SEE THE POINT yet . WHY , WHY did they splinter . probably because one side saw ERROR in the other .
AND BINGO there IT IS . THAT IS WHY i dont just run to any ol church just cause it says WE THE CHURCH .
I examine the doctrine . And not just what their writings on the wall might say
BUT also the leaders and how and what THEY NOW teach . THAT IS WHY
i never became baptist , methodist , jw , mormon , sda , RCC , or greek orthodox .
And yet all them have one thing in common . NO ITS NOT their doctrine .
ITS the idea that UNLESS YOU learn the bible from our scholars and etc , YOU cannot learn it .
POWER AND CONTROL baby . that is all that was .
Now lets BIBLE up for ourselves . You do that for a while . I want you to just
go back and do this .

 

[Marvelloustime]

pardner if you are Asking them for their intercession , you are praying to them .
WE need only to pray TO GOD in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST .
So you are saying you pray T OGOD for their intercession . ME oh my . bad news my friend . real bad news .
JESUS is my interecessor , not mary , not the saints already gone .
Now i can ask YOU to pray for me , or perhaps i can ask You for help .
Just because a church knows the trinity does not mean it follows GOD .
for pete sakes man . look at how many in even the protestant realm can claim such
and THEY in large DONT follow HIM either .
So the RCC says iTS the one true church , the greek orthodox says its the one true church .
The jw says the same . the mormon said the same .
WANNA Know whta they all have in common . ERRORS and sure love to dress up , be seen of men
and called very grand titles by men .
When i witness to the jw , THEY say OUR men over our watchtower are the true ones of GOD .
And the funny thing is they used to rail on the RCC and said THEY WORSHIP a pope .
KINDA ODD , seeing they worship MEN TOO .
The one true church is simply the sheep . and of course their are teachers and elders and etc .
But all must be tested . and i already found error in your response
about how you said you pray TO GOD for their , THEIR intercession . But i just bet
you wont budge an inch and will remain stuck in that doctirne . CAUSE Y OUR church taught you it . that is the problem
with so many . and its why they are being decieved . WE must bible up now .
Oh wait are you gonna tell me the same thing the RCC does , A protestant , a jw
THAT I cant learn the bible for my self lest i sit under THEM or YOUR MEN .
AGAIN that is why you all are being misled .

@amigo de christo

 

[Rhetro]

wanna hear something real scary .
Many , oh i say many of the jews , their scholars and etc
would faithfully recopy Torah for the generations .
BUT BELIEVE ME when i say GOD was NOT well pleased with them .
just cause GOD allowed men to order up the right bible ,
DONT MEAN such men could not later FALL .
HECK how many times do you yourself see a man that can even say HEY
This is the bible , i beleive what it says , i can do what it says
ONLY THEY A FALSE PROPHET just like joel osteen .
JUST cause they so called gave us the bible means naught when they follow NOT THE GOD , THE CHRIST of said bible .
IT was peter who basically got the writings of the apostles together .
MEN just later kept recopying such and then put a order on it .
But just because they had held those letters , DOES NOT mean they , as in those under the RCC
even knew or followed GOD . Even one of their own
called the RCC the HARLOT . yeah . he got that right . but even he had errors .
IF WE WANT TRUTH , OPEN bibLE and learn it for yourself . that is a fact too .

Don’t run away from the question. Who decided the list of books of the Bible? The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. Can you name one church father? And why should we follow your interpretation over the Church?

Just because others claim to be the one true church doesn’t mean the one true church doesn’t exist.

Also, by admitting that God used the visible Church to 'order up the right Bible,' you completely surrendered your argument, St. Peter was martyred decades before the New Testament was even fully written, meaning you are relying on a purely fictional history to avoid admitting that you trust the Holy Spirit's guidance of the historic Church for your Scriptures but reject it for your theology.

 

[amigo de christo]

Don’t run away from the question. Who decided the list of books of the Bible? The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. Can you name one church father? And why should we follow your interpretation over the Church?

Just because others claim to be the one true church doesn’t mean the one true church doesn’t exist.

Also, by admitting that God used the visible Church to 'order up the right Bible,' you completely surrendered your argument, St. Peter was martyred decades before the New Testament was even fully written, meaning you are relying on a purely fictional history to avoid admitting that you trust the Holy Spirit's guidance of the historic Church for your Scriptures but reject it for your theology.

From that period onward, the Western Church, centered about the Pope of Rome, and the Eastern Church, centered about the Patriarch of Constantinople, went their separate ways.
So which one is the one true church .
And this proves exactly what i been saying all along . That even if a church starts out right
IT CAN FALL .
I had to go and reread a bit about the greek orthodox and etc .
Oh i dont blame them for abandoing rome and the crusades .
But my point is , APPARENTLY THINGS SURE CAN GO WRONG .
The true church dont just sit under men cause men say THEY are the one true church .
Cause as you can see CHURCHES can fall .
SO my point is we needs to get our rumps in that bible .
cause many already have fallen . And an ecumeincal harlot has infiltrated just about all now .
OH YES i seen greek orthodox leaders bowing to pope francis . DONT act like it cant happen .
PROVING that man is not infallible . THE ONE TRUE CHURCH
is simply those who ARE the sheep of JESUS and they have existed throug hout all generations .

 

[amigo de christo]

Don’t run away from the question. Who decided the list of books of the Bible? The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. Can you name one church father? And why should we follow your interpretation over the Church?

Just because others claim to be the one true church doesn’t mean the one true church doesn’t exist.

Also, by admitting that God used the visible Church to 'order up the right Bible,' you completely surrendered your argument, St. Peter was martyred decades before the New Testament was even fully written, meaning you are relying on a purely fictional history to avoid admitting that you trust the Holy Spirit's guidance of the historic Church for your Scriptures but reject it for your theology.

so if by saying whoever gave us the bible is the one true church
THEN WHY DID ROME and THE EASTERN SPLIT .
SEE my point yet .
Institiutions of men CAN AND OFTEN DO FALL into serious error .
SO
do you see my point . They cant b oth be the one true church
AND YET in the beginning they had gave us the canon .
SEE my point . Instituitons are often taken over and corrupted .
The church wont stay under corruption either .
SO all this blah blah about the protestant reformation
is kinda like a pot calling a ketttle black .
I mean IF WE SUPPOSED To stay IN THE CHURCH
THEN WHY DID the eastern remove itself , or why did ROME . WHO is who my friend .
And oh yeah i KNOW with zero doubt that most all of even the reformers were off on things .
SOME deadly things . But guess why i didnt join them . OH yeah , CAUSE GOD put me into the bible
to learn . And by grace i did learn . that is why i make the same call to all .
You cant just remain in a place cause it may have once been good , WHEN its going bankrupt .

 

[amigo de christo]

Don’t run away from the question. Who decided the list of books of the Bible? The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. Can you name one church father? And why should we follow your interpretation over the Church?

Just because others claim to be the one true church doesn’t mean the one true church doesn’t exist.

Also, by admitting that God used the visible Church to 'order up the right Bible,' you completely surrendered your argument, St. Peter was martyred decades before the New Testament was even fully written, meaning you are relying on a purely fictional history to avoid admitting that you trust the Holy Spirit's guidance of the historic Church for your Scriptures but reject it for your theology.

so who left who . See my point yet . WHY did the eastern split . IF they were both the original church .
I aint saying they should not have split . I would have ran from the
unholy RCC myself . EVEN IN THE DAYS of constantine .
But if what you say is true , if by leaving the church that gave us the canon is wrong
THEN EVEN THE ORTHODOX were wrong . OOPS , but as said i WOULD HAVE FLED THE RCC TOO .
JUST cause a church can give us the bible
DONT MEAN IT CANT GO WRONG friend . Now lets all bible up again . Bible time .

 

[amigo de christo]

Don’t run away from the question. Who decided the list of books of the Bible? The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. Can you name one church father? And why should we follow your interpretation over the Church?

Just because others claim to be the one true church doesn’t mean the one true church doesn’t exist.

Also, by admitting that God used the visible Church to 'order up the right Bible,' you completely surrendered your argument, St. Peter was martyred decades before the New Testament was even fully written, meaning you are relying on a purely fictional history to avoid admitting that you trust the Holy Spirit's guidance of the historic Church for your Scriptures but reject it for your theology.

ANY instituion can become corrupt . ANY .
paul himself had warned how men would come in to make desciples of themselves .
WE cannot trust in an instution . WE MUST TRUST IN GOD and then test all men and do so often and always .
Cause the great schism is proof they can GO WRONG . of course i would go back father than that .
But i will leave it as that for now .
IF not sitting under a church that gave us the canon is wrong , THEN WHY THE SPLIT .
Oh i can answer that queswtion . cause ONE SIDE saw deadly error in the other and said
ITS TIME to give that one the BOOT . i would have done the same .
And i still do the same . I aint sitting under anyone just cause they claim they gave us the bible .
I EXAMINE them . See the point yet . and on that note
YOU better examine hard even your own side , THEY IN BED with ecumeincalism
just like the protestant realm is ,
JUST like the RCC is . THEY fleecing us all now .
Any church , no matter if it can c laim the gospel and yet lips inclusivism , IS NOT ANY place i am gonna sit under .
I suggest we all return TO THIS BIBLE so many cliam their church gave us .
IF WE DO , we gonna see a massive problem has come down upon them all now and its getting worse all the time .

 

[amigo de christo]

Don’t run away from the question. Who decided the list of books of the Bible? The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. Can you name one church father? And why should we follow your interpretation over the Church?

Just because others claim to be the one true church doesn’t mean the one true church doesn’t exist.

Also, by admitting that God used the visible Church to 'order up the right Bible,' you completely surrendered your argument, St. Peter was martyred decades before the New Testament was even fully written, meaning you are relying on a purely fictional history to avoid admitting that you trust the Holy Spirit's guidance of the historic Church for your Scriptures but reject it for your theology.

i never said the one true church does not exist . Friend i am of it and in it .
I am saying that instituions can and DO GO wrong .
IF NOT , then what the heck happened during the great schism . SOMEONE WENT WRONG
and the other side said NO MAS , we aint with you anymore .
I WOULD do the same myself .
in fact upon reading up on the quick history
they were having problems long before that .
SO its NOT WRONG to flee a place , if even said place originally did make the canon .
IF a place falls , GET OUT .
And many have alerady fallen . AND NOW in the last hour
we got us an ecumeincal harlot trying to bring us all back home to mama . ONLY DO REMEMbER
I aint in the business of sitting under A HARLOT .

 

[amigo de christo]

rhetro i just peeked and seen you were last here fourteen minutes ago viewing this thread .
That means you had time to read some of what i wrote .
Do explain please . Cause what i say to one i say to all ANY ORGANIZATION is capable of falling .
NOT THE CHURCH , but the institution can . IF NOT
OH IF NOT then why the great schism . PROVING my point exactly . OH THEY CAN and OH THEY DO fall .

 

[amigo de christo]

The one true church is alive and well .
ONLY i would not run to the mainstream to FIND IT .
bible time .

 

[marks]

Hello, yes. That’s completely fair.

If I could sum it up in just one sentence:

Without God, you cannot justify logic in order to even be able to raise an objection against God to begin with.

Think of atheism as a jury floating in mid air demanding evidence, but without being able to justify what is keeping it floating to begin with.

Seeing if I understand . . . we cannot logically object to "God" because our logic would have no validity unless it had come from God?

Much love!

 

[Rhetro]

i never said the one true church does not exist . Friend i am of it and in it .
I am saying that instituions can and DO GO wrong .
IF NOT , then what the heck happened during the great schism . SOMEONE WENT WRONG
and the other side said NO MAS , we aint with you anymore .
I WOULD do the same myself .
in fact upon reading up on the quick history
they were having problems long before that .
SO its NOT WRONG to flee a place , if even said place originally did make the canon .
IF a place falls , GET OUT .
And many have alerady fallen . AND NOW in the last hour
we got us an ecumeincal harlot trying to bring us all back home to mama . ONLY DO REMEMbER
I aint in the business of sitting under A HARLOT .

So you are Eastern Orthodox then? Because that’s the Church Christ established with apostolic succession and historical continuity.

 

[Rhetro]

Seeing if I understand . . . we cannot logically object to "God" because our logic would have no validity unless it had come from God?

Much love!

Exactly.