Does one need to study the bible?

bbyrd009 · Dec 24, 2016

Dan57 said:
How do you know "In the beginning was the Word"? Of course the bible wasn't in the beginning, but it records what was.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God" (2 Timothy 3:16). If you discount the bible as not being God-breathed, what are you left with? It was all recorded for our sake and its writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Without the bible, we are left with our imaginations.

understand that i have not dismissed that Scripture is God~Breathed, ok; i have even repeated that. But the argument is that it is the Breath that is the Word, and the Book is not; It is the Law, It is profitable, It is a lot of things, a tool to separate joints from marrow, etc, but It is not Word and cannot be conflated with Word using the Book.

How do you know "In the beginning was the Word"?

granted, yes. But i am suggesting that the Book be put in Its rightful place, not dismissing It, ok. I know that the same way i know that the Book is not the Word.

StanJ · Dec 24, 2016

bbyrd009 said:
"pull Greek words out of thin air," lol, kind of poetic here imo. The written word is words, and not Word, God, Breath, Pneuma, is the argument. "Word" is therefore not contained in "polylogia," or else you just have "many Gods." The Word is God, and became flesh...just going through your reply here...Ah, "All Scripture is indeed the Word of God." In this case, "Easter" becomes the Word of God, see, and you already know this is a lie, that is just some words that KJ put in, and which demonstrates why the Bible is not Word, if "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Bible was God" is not proof enough. All Scripture is God~Breathed, when It was Breathed, but you have a translator in between you and the Word there, meaning that by definition there is no breath on your neck, ergo there is no Word, regardless of the fact that 2Tim3 et al are still true, i am not disputing any of those, ok.

And as i said, i understand this is a big step, for people who have been indoctrinated into The Bible is God, but if you are able to keep an open mind, and at least entertain the thought that Word might be so much more than that, a direct connection, removing the translator, David's statement might be better interpreted (as the Book even directs here, imo) "11; I have hidden your speech utterance in my heart..." wherein it might be tempting, but it is twisting "amar" to death to suggest "written word" there, when David could easily have used "Book" or "Law," in Psalm 119, if he meant Torah, but he did not, for a good reason.

And you can try, but any other attempts to Witness Book or Law as Word will also not stand up to any scrutiny imo. Do your best. Deut 30 seems to be the best shot at that. But i tell you honestly, making Bible into God is obscuring the Word for you, and preventing you from seeking--and thus finding--Word. And this is done on purpose, imo; so that people may see and not see. Which of course we interpret these people as "bad" or "blind," "not us, but them," of course, when this is just a description of the Veil, that everyone has, we see as through a mirror, darkly.

So wadr our chief inhibitor to recognizing Word as Breath, Spoken, Pneuma, is people "who say they know, (but) do not yet know as they ought," or the blind leading the blind, iow, that both may fall into a ditch. And i tell you that a chief symptom of these will be that they "know," and not that they have an interpretation. You might also note the connection to "Meeting Him in the Air" here, which has miraculously been changed into "Meeting Him in the Bible" now, a very real "spiritual" phenomenon for many.

But really, you are done when you cannot address "In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God," doesn't it seem?

Sorry you response is way too incohesive and I have no idea what you're talking about. You're doing a whole lot of mental gymnastics but not making much sense. The word 'word' in the Bible comes from many Greek words and those words are based on what the context of the scripture is. Apparently you don't understand context which is a pretty basic part of Grammar 101.

bbyrd009 · Dec 25, 2016

StanJ said:
Sorry you response is way too incohesive and I have no idea what you're talking about. You're doing a whole lot of mental gymnastics but not making much sense. The word 'word' in the Bible comes from many Greek words and those words are based on what the context of the scripture is. Apparently you don't understand context which is a pretty basic part of Grammar 101.

oh, i'm making perfect sense, there is Word, the Breath of God, the Thing the Book comes from, and there are words, God~Breathed, in Hebrew, written in such a way so that people see and do not see, and one can read water or wine, written into a Book and then scribed and translated. See, what makes perfect sense here is that you cannot address In the Beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God, because the Bible is Book and Law, but It is not Word. And we are encouraged to make Bible into God to not see Word.

And this is manifest, becomes evident, when you are led into an interpretive cul-de-sac by the Bible, which is part of the filleting process, the separating joints from marrow thing. So rather than respond to your "context" accusation here, since you have not offered any examples or Witnesses, i'll just say that i understand this is a big bite to take, a big thing to suggest to people who, let's face it, have been solidly convinced that the Bible is God, their whole lives, and so i would prefer to reason together on this, just bring your Witnesses here and we'll see, and since i know you have been searching furiously for a day or whatever now, and still have not found the verse, i will even suggest that you go to Deuteronomy 30--strictly because that seems like your best shot to me, but if you got another, bring it--and recognize the shift from "commands" in v10, which supply the context for "statutes and ordinances," to "command" in v11, which supplies the context for "Word,"

14No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
14But the message is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may follow it.

and you can already see that the Gospel has been invoked here, and we got like a quarter million "What is the Gospel?" threads on the net, mostly all yack, trying to define "Gospel," too, and we even got a "Message" Bible now, but, um, "irregardless" you might already be aware of the pitfalls of trying to prove that the Gospel is in the Book, which of course It is not, the Message is not in the Law, or the Book, just like any other iteration of Word that you can think of is not; Christ, God, Gospel, Pneuma, Logos, Word.

and i would only ask that you keep an open mind here ok, i've gone from 1-2 hours a day in the Book to like 8 or 10, so the end result is not going to be dismissing the Book ok. It is going to be discovering It, actually. The entire Book is going to jump to life for you, and no one is going to be able to lead you into a cul-de-sac any more, once you resolve that the Law is God~Breathed, and is also inadequate because It is not the Breath, that Breathed It, and the purpose of your umpty-ump years of studying the Book was to Root, and the Fruit comes from the Word, http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=fruit+word, wow, never did that search yet, nice, the tree part, above the root, your fruit, your flavor, same root, same foundation, but no orchards full of one kind of apple, Love believes all things, iow, meaning i don't care if you believe Book is Word or not, that's fine, you are going to hold that belief as long as it serves you, and it is what is in your heart that matters anyway. And you are going to manifest whatever is in your heart, regardless of what your "confession" is at some other moment, and the Book is going to fillet you, for anyone with eyes to see.

You are seeking Christ? Then you are "accepted," as far as i am concerned. Don't find love until you are ready.

But i have admitted that i am asking you to step off a cliff, so to speak, so be honest with yourself, and reflect upon why you accuse me of things that you are not bringing evidence for, alright, and let's reason together ok. You are a smart guy, so this is a fair request. If i wrote something that you don't get, then post it and ask for clarification, and i'll use some different symbology, no prob. But don't fail to notice that, as you are looking for a snippet for an example, you didn't bring one yet for a reason, ok, which the reason is going to become manifest when you go look for one, and i do this too, ha, i amaze myself, now, at my ability to serve my own agenda in increasingly novel ways, but that is what that is, ok, an attempt at self-justification. So let's either back it up, or throw it out, and i forgive you, no offense taken.

Heb 13:8 · Dec 26, 2016

StanJ said:
Sorry you response is way too incohesive and I have no idea what you're talking about.

He gets that a lot lol.

bbyrd009 · Dec 26, 2016

no kidding. The ratio of that response to asking a simple clarifying question is currently 100:0 lol

Heb 13:8 · Dec 26, 2016

bbyrd009 said:
no kidding. The ratio of that response to asking a simple clarifying question is currently 100:0 lol

lol, yea right. it's easy to find stones in the sorcery, but no regrets here. 98:0 for me.

StanJ · Dec 26, 2016

bbyrd009 said:
oh, i'm making perfect sense, there is Word, the Breath of God, the Thing the Book comes from, and there are words, God~Breathed, in Hebrew, written in such a way so that people see and do not see, and one can read water or wine, written into a Book and then scribed and translated. See, what makes perfect sense here is that you cannot address In the Beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God, because the Bible is Book and Law, but It is not Word. And we are encouraged to make Bible into God to not see Word.

And this is manifest, becomes evident, when you are led into an interpretive cul-de-sac by the Bible, which is part of the filleting process, the separating joints from marrow thing. So rather than respond to your "context" accusation here, since you have not offered any examples or Witnesses, i'll just say that i understand this is a big bite to take, a big thing to suggest to people who, let's face it, have been solidly convinced that the Bible is God, their whole lives, and so i would prefer to reason together on this, just bring your Witnesses here and we'll see, and since i know you have been searching furiously for a day or whatever now, and still have not found the verse, i will even suggest that you go to Deuteronomy 30--strictly because that seems like your best shot to me, but if you got another, bring it--and recognize the shift from "commands" in v10, which supply the context for "statutes and ordinances," to "command" in v11, which supplies the context for "Word,"

14[/size]No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
14[/size]But the message is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may follow it.

and you can already see that the Gospel has been invoked here, and we got like a quarter million "What is the Gospel?" threads on the net, mostly all yack, trying to define "Gospel," too, and we even got a "Message" Bible now, but, um, "irregardless" you might already be aware of the pitfalls of trying to prove that the Gospel is in the Book, which of course It is not, the Message is not in the Law, or the Book, just like any other iteration of Word that you can think of is not; Christ, God, Gospel, Pneuma, Logos, Word.

and i would only ask that you keep an open mind here ok, i've gone from 1-2 hours a day in the Book to like 8 or 10, so the end result is not going to be dismissing the Book ok. It is going to be discovering It, actually. The entire Book is going to jump to life for you, and no one is going to be able to lead you into a cul-de-sac any more, once you resolve that the Law is God~Breathed, and is also inadequate because It is not the Breath, that Breathed It, and the purpose of your umpty-ump years of studying the Book was to Root, and the Fruit comes from the Word, http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=fruit+word, wow, never did that search yet, nice, the tree part, above the root, your fruit, your flavor, same root, same foundation, but no orchards full of one kind of apple, Love believes all things, iow, meaning i don't care if you believe Book is Word or not, that's fine, you are going to hold that belief as long as it serves you, and it is what is in your heart that matters anyway. And you are going to manifest whatever is in your heart, regardless of what your "confession" is at some other moment, and the Book is going to fillet you, for anyone with eyes to see.

You are seeking Christ? Then you are "accepted," as far as i am concerned. Don't find love until you are ready.

But i have admitted that i am asking you to step off a cliff, so to speak, so be honest with yourself, and reflect upon why you accuse me of things that you are not bringing evidence for, alright, and let's reason together ok. You are a smart guy, so this is a fair request. If i wrote something that you don't get, then post it and ask for clarification, and i'll use some different symbology, no prob. But don't fail to notice that, as you are looking for a snippet for an example, you didn't bring one yet for a reason, ok, which the reason is going to become manifest when you go look for one, and i do this too, ha, i amaze myself, now, at my ability to serve my own agenda in increasingly novel ways, but that is what that is, ok, an attempt at self-justification. So let's either back it up, or throw it out, and i forgive you, no offense taken.

Again what you continue to do is use anglicized Greek words try to prove a point that isn't there in Scripture. You can read the Bible all you want but if you don't practice rightly dividing it through proper biblical hermeneutics then you'll just slip off the deep end like you have done already and come up with all kinds of fantastical ideas, none of which are true. Romans 1:19 tells us even unbelievers can see God as plain as the nose on their face, but only if they are willing. The same goes for those that claim to be believers and read his word but don't see the truth.

bbyrd009 · Dec 27, 2016

StanJ said:
Again what you continue to do is use anglicized Greek words try to prove a point that isn't there in Scripture.

ok, could you provide an example then? ty

other than the obvious construction of a prognosticated hell in some undetermined future, i mean, not those Anglicized Greek words.

What point that is not in Scripture am i using Anglicized Greek words improperly for? ty

mjrhealth · Dec 27, 2016

Imagine if there were no bible.

wow people would actually have to go to God and learn from Him, people would actually have to believe Him and one god thatis before God would not exist. Faith yes people would need to have faith.

mjrhealth · Dec 27, 2016

ok, could you provide an example then? ty

other than the obvious construction of a prognosticated hell in some undetermined future, i mean, not those Anglicized Greek words.

What point that is not in Scripture am i using Anglicized Greek words improperly for? ty

you havnt won yet hes still reading your posts. Not that anyone really wins out of this unless the find Jesus which according to the bible is all it testifies of .

Heb 13:8 · Dec 27, 2016

mjrhealth said:
wow people would actually have to go to God and learn from Him, people would actually have to believe Him and one god thatis before God would not exist. Faith yes people would need to have faith.

like they did before the Bible was written. when was that, just out of curiosity?

bbyrd009 · Dec 28, 2016

mjrhealth said:
you havnt won yet hes still reading your posts. Not that anyone really wins out of this unless the find Jesus which according to the bible is all it testifies of .

He's still reading my posts? Lol. I haven't won what? I'm just trying to win an explanation right now.

Oh, you think he's actually trying to find some evidence that the Book is the Word?

Ya, good luck there buddy. It isn't ok? Why didn't your pastor know this, huh? I know!

but you gotta see that if pastors told people the truth, there would be no business model, see...nobody wants to hear the truth.

Heb 13:8 · Dec 28, 2016

bbyrd009 said:
He's still reading my posts? Lol. I haven't won what? I'm just trying to win an explanation right now.

Oh, you think he's actually trying to find some evidence that the Book is the Word?

Ya, good luck there buddy. It isn't ok? Why didn't your pastor know this, huh? I know!

but you gotta see that if pastors told people the truth, there would be no business model, see...nobody wants to hear the truth.

Jesus Christ is the Word, and to all who receive Him and believe.

John 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.

John 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.

John 1:12-13 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Heb 13:8 · Dec 28, 2016

John 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

1 John 5:12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

bbyrd009 · Dec 28, 2016

so, looks to me like Gandhi is in, and pretty much everyone else is a diviner or a prognosticator. Why don't we all just go buy some Tarot cards lol.

Heb 13:8 · Dec 28, 2016

bbyrd009 said:
so, looks to me like Gandhi is in, and pretty much everyone else is a diviner or a prognosticator. Why don't we all just go buy some Tarot cards lol.

??

epostle1 · Dec 28, 2016

bbyrd009 said:
understand that i have not dismissed that Scripture is God~Breathed, ok; i have even repeated that. But the argument is that it is the Breath that is the Word, and the Book is not; It is the Law, It is profitable, It is a lot of things, a tool to separate joints from marrow, etc, but It is not Word and cannot be conflated with Word using the Book.

Agreed. "word" in John 1 is logos in Greek, referring to Christ's divinity and pre-existence.

FHII · Dec 29, 2016

kepha31 said:
Agreed. "word" in John 1 is logos in Greek, referring to Christ's divinity and pre-existence.

That is true kepha... But i am not going to separate what Jesus said from him. Jesus is the Word and the Bible is the Word of God. Please see my post in the theology board for a more thorough explanation.

bbyrd009 · Dec 29, 2016

kepha31 said:
Agreed. "word" in John 1 is logos in Greek, referring to Christ's divinity and pre-existence.

for you, perhaps; i am no longer comfortable so blithely defining Word myself, wadr.

StanJ · Dec 29, 2016

bbyrd009 said:
ok, could you provide an example then? ty
other than the obvious construction of a prognosticated hell in some undetermined future, i mean, not those Anglicized Greek words.
What point that is not in Scripture am i using Anglicized Greek words improperly for? ty

It's pretty obvious by your rhetoric that you don't believe in the Bible don't believe in hell and probably don't believe in the Trinity, so I'm not really sure why you came into this thread but it sure wasn't to discuss how important the Bible is to study?
Have you even confess Jesus as your savior?

Does one need to study the bible?

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