The body of Moses hid?

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 19, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Why is this strange verse in the Word with nothing more given, seeming out of place.

It is seemingly out of place, but not actually so. The structure of Jude, when compared with Peter, is given in a specific order, and linked to other passages of scripture. Let me see if I can summarize this (as this subject touches the whole Bible (not kidding)) using the structure of the language itself.

For instance, in brief (for a more thorough comparison see Appendix 1 - The Epistles of Peter and Jude compared ; in the first link ):

The texts of Jude 1:1-25 KJB also have a special chiastic (parallelism) structure in and of themselves, as a for instance, compare:

Jude 1:5 KJB - I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jude 1:6 KJB - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:7 KJB - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 1:8 KJB - Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

[1]

Jude 1:5 KJB - “... out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.”

[like Dathan, Abiram, and Korah [aka Core], Numbers 16:32, 26:10 KJB, etc, these all spoke evil of dignities [against Moses, Aaron and others also later spoke against Joshua]

Jude 1:8 KJB - “... speak evil of dignities.”

[2]

Jude 1:6 KJB - “... the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation ...”

[“first estate” refers to the arch-offices that many of the angels left in following Lucifer, who left his own God-given place and sought the place of the Son of God, hence the word: anti-christ, for they came to despise to be ruled by 'Jesus']

Jude 1:8 KJB - “... despise dominion ...”

[3]

Jude 1:7 KJB - “... Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh ...”

Jude 1:8 KJB - “... [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh ...”

Also a comparison is to be made with the parallel texts of 2 Peter 2:1-22 KJB and its own chiasm. Only two brief comparisons will be made at this time.

For instance, compare 2 Peter 2:10 KJB with Jude 1:8 KJB:

2 Peter 2:10 KJB - But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:8 KJB - Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

[1]

2 Peter 2:10 KJB - “... chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness ...”

Jude 1:8 KJB - “... these filthy dreamers defile the flesh ...”

[2]

2 Peter 2:10 KJB - “... despise government ...”

Jude 1:8 KJB - “... despise dominion ...”

[3]

2 Peter 2:10 KJB - “... Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.”

Jude 1:8 KJB - “... speak evil of dignities.”

For instance, compare:

2 Peter 2:11 KJB - Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

Jude 1:9 KJB - Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

[1]

2 Peter 2:11 KJB - “... angels ...”

Jude 1:9 KJB - “... archangel ...”

[2]

2 Peter 2:11 KJB - “... bring not railing accusation ...”

Jude 1:9 KJB - “... not bring … railing accusation ...”

[3]

2 Peter 2:11 KJB - “... against them ...”

Jude 1:9 KJB - “... against him ...”

[4]

2 Peter 2:11 KJB - “... the Lord.”

Jude 1:9 KJB - “... the Lord ...”

Therefore, since one New Testament writer was inspired by the Holy Spirit to use the words “angels”, “against”, “railing accusation” and “the Lord”, the second witness [2 Corinthians 13:1 KJB, etc.] would use similar phrasing, “archangel”, “against”, “railing accusation” and “the Lord”, as it refers to those whom are sent of God, and as the Holy Spirit is inspiring both holy persons as per 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21 KJB.

Compare also these passages side by side and look for the parallel language:

Daniel 10:4-21 to
Zechariah 3:1-10 to
Jude 1:9 to
Revelation 12:1-17

Consider:

[01]

Daniel 10:13 KJB - “... Michael, one of the chief princes ...”

Zechariah 3:1-6 KJB - “... The Angel of the LORD ...”

Jude 1:9 KJB - “... Michael the archangel ...”

Revelation 12:7 KJB - “... Michael and his angels ...”

[02]

Daniel 10:13 KJB - “... the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood [me, Gabriel a lesser arch-angel, but then Michael/Jesus arrives to “help” Gabriel withstand and overcome the arguments of the devil] ...”

Zechariah 3:1 KJB - “... Satan standing at his right hand to resist him ...”

Jude 1:9 KJB - “... the devil disputed ...”

Revelation 12:7 KJB - “... fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels ...”

[03]

Daniel 10:13 KJB - “... came to help me [Gabriel, the lesser arch-angel] ...”

Zechariah 3:1-10 KJB - “… Joshua ...”, the high priest, servant of the LORD

Jude 1:9 KJB - “... Moses ...”, the prophet, servant of the LORD

Revelation 12:7 KJB - “... and his angels [like Gabriel, the lesser arch-angel, Seraphim, Cherubim, etc.] ...”

[04]

Daniel 10:13 KJB - [there is no direct parallel in this passage to the other two, but the absence thereof would parallel in chiastic nature that of Revelation 12:7 KJB]

Zechariah 3:2 KJB - [The LORD Himself said:] “... The LORD rebuke thee ...”, “... even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee ...”

Jude 1:9 KJB - [Michael the archangel said:] “... said, The Lord rebuke thee ...”

Revelation 12:7 KJB - [there is no direct parallel in this passage to the other two, but the absence thereof would parallel in chiastic nature that of Daniel 10:13 KJB]

Please notice that in Zechariah 3, that the “Angel of the LORD”, whom is also stated as “the LORD” [being Jesus] who was speaking, says to Satan, “... the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?”

In comparing the two, Jude 1:9 and Zechariah 3, we see the servants of God, Moses and Joshua the priest, are being accused to God, by Satan, because of their sin. For instance, Joshua the high priest is clothed in “filthy garments” [Zechariah 3:3,4], and clothing in scripture, represents the character.

There is also the example of how Jesus responds to accusations. Some have already touched on this in this thread. "Speaking evil of dignities" and "railing accusation" etc.

1 Peter 2:19 - For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

1 Peter 2:20 - For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

1 Peter 2:21 - For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

1 Peter 2:22 - Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

1 Peter 2:23 - Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Michael/Jesus then, would never render “evil for evil” or “railing for railing” and therefore would “refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile”:

1 Peter 3:9 KJB - Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

1 Peter 3:10 KJB - For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

This is the short summary (really). The lengthier demonstration of these things is in the linked material. See "Michael the archangel [09] - The Comparisons of the “Angel of the LORD” throughout the KJB", and subsection "[09-G] “The LORD rebuke thee.” - with subsection Moses Resurrection"

Enoch111 · Jun 19, 2018

TheHolyBookEnds said:
There are many who are presently in the other ditch, who accept Jesus as eternal Deity, the Son of the Father, and separate Him from Michael, and reducing Michael to a created being. Both ditches...

Sorry, but believing that Christ is uncreated God while Michael is a created angel is exactly what the Bible reveals. So that belief is not a *ditch* by any means. Only the cults believe this nonsense about Jesus and Michael being identical or whatever.

The eternal Word (Jesus) created Michael, and since Jesus is "the Lord", and Michael did not have the authority to rebuke Satan, it is Michael who said "the Lord rebuke thee".

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Furthermore, Michael -- along with all the holy angels -- has been commanded by God the Father to worship God the Son. That should be enough to settle the issue.

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6)

PSALM 103
20 Bless [praise and worship] the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

21 Bless [praise and worship] ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 19, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Why is this strange verse in the Word with nothing more given, seeming out of place.

Ok sister. Recap. The purpose of Jude's passage in short is to show that since Moses had died, and was buried by the LORD Himself, and in the NT Gospels, Moses himself shows up in glorified body with the translated and glorified Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration in the land of Canaan, the question arises, "What happened that Moses was able to appear on the Mount of Transfiguration like that in a glorified body with Elijah?" The mind led of the Holy Ghost automatically knows a resurrection took place, and so the text of Jude 1:9 (along with Romans 5:14), then fills in that 'gap' and completes the picture for us. It then exists as a great typology for the end-times peoples.

VictoryinJesus said:
Who is Michael the archangel?

In short, it is the Son of God, Jesus.

In scripture, the Son of God the Father, has many, many names/titles, (see "Michael the archangel [X3] - Appendix 3 – The Many Names And Titles Of The Son Of The Father – Jesus" in the first link) for example (very briefly), "I AM" (the Son), "JEHOVAH Immanuel", "Jesus JEHOVAH", "Angel of the LORD" (ie messenger of the Father), "Rose of Sharon", "the Lamb of God", "Advocate", "Apostle" (of the Father) and so on. The name "Michael" means "Who is like unto God", and the word "archangel" is two words, "arch" (ruler over, chief, highest, etc) and "angel" (messenger). Thus when combined means simply, "Who is like unto God, the Highest Messenger" (of the Father)? I only know of one Being that fits that name/character, and it is Jesus.

"Who is like unto God" - see Revelation 12:7; Exodus 15:11; 1 Kings 8:23; Psalms 71:19; Deuteronomy 33:26; 2 Chronicles 6:14; Job 36:22; Psalms 35:10, 86:8, 89:8, 113:5; Jeremiah 10:6-7; Micah 7:18

This is in contrast to "Who is like unto the Beast" (Revelation 13:4).

VictoryinJesus said:
Why did they both want the body of Moses?

It deals with the vindication of God's character. Satan insinuates that God cannot both be Just and Merciful (Justifier) together at the same time. He insinutated that God cannot save mankind that had sinned (like Moses) and destroy himself (satan) for sin, and that if Moses was to enter Heaven, so then could Satan once more remain in Heaven. He implies that God is unjust in delivering mankind, and sparing them from the wrath of God's justice. He implies God is unjust in judgment against the fallen angels who will be destroyed, while saving repentant mankind (through Christ Jesus). The cross of Christ answers both questions, ultimately.

VictoryinJesus said:
Who is the body of Christ?

Scripture says the people of God are the "body of Christ":

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Thus, this would include Moses, who was a member of the "church in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38).

VictoryinJesus said:
Are we not hidden?

Yes we are hidden in him. However, the devil thought he had a point of contention over Moses, because Moses had sinned in what he did, or didn't do. The devil claimed him as his property. Yet Moses had repented, and God (the Father) forgave him (Moses in Christ), and therefore sent the Son to reclaim that which was rightfully His. Michael/Jesus did not argue with the devil, but simply refered to the judgment of His Father in the matter, as He always does. Therefore, these events give us hope, that even though we have sinned, we can have repentance and forgivness and cleansing from sin (as gifts from God), and be raised, should we die before Jesus comes. Jesus, in John 14:1-4, gives us the greater events.

VictoryinJesus said:
Is Christ not hidden within parables?

Christ Jesus is all over the scriptures, as He Himself so said, and can be seen in the many types, prophecies, and so on - Shadowy Typology & Verity Reality

John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Psalms 40:7 - Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Hebrews 10:7 - Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Luke 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

John 1:45 - Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Acts 28:23 - And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Hidden In Him · Jun 19, 2018

TheHolyBookEnds said:
Ok, let me know brother Hidden in Him, if you want me to start another thread on this subject, and if so, I will. I pray it will edify many.

That was a gracious answer, brother. And actually, I sensed in my spirit that it was something different than your being JW; more of a personal belief of sorts. But I had to ask.

About discussing it, I can tell before we even start that it may be quite involved ... if we did, I would prefer if we just took it passage by passage, beginning with the one you were citing here in Jude. If you send me a novel, I'll still end up breaking it down passage by passage anyway. But maybe we could start there and see how it goes?

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 19, 2018

Enoch111 said:
Sorry, but believing that Christ is uncreated God while Michael is a created angel is exactly what the Bible reveals. ...

Thank you brother Enoch111 for your reply, but I do not intend to argue in another's thread, nor defend what I have written here. If you would like my consideration in depth of those texts which you have kindly presented, I will point you to the two links given, and chapter "Michael the archangel [10] - Questions and Answers about Michael Archangel - Jesus Texts" and subsection "[10-G] Question 07: How can Jesus, who is JEHOVAH [E/I]mmanuel, be “Michael the archangel”, or “the angel of the LORD” since in Hebrews 1:1-14 KJB the passage says that Jesus is “so much better than the angels” [Hebrews 1:4 KJB], has “a more excellent name than they” [Hebrews 1:4 KJB] and all the “angels of God” are to “worship him [Jesus]” [Hebrews 1:6 KJB] because He is “the brightness of his [the Father's] glory, and the express image of his [the Father's] person” [Hebrews 1:3 KJB]?"

Otherwise, if I may ask you, in all charity (1 Corinthians 13) to speak with me in another thread which I may create in a bit, ok?

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 19, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
That was a gracious answer, brother. And actually, I sensed in my spirit that it was something different than your being JW; more of a personal belief of sorts. But I had to ask.

About discussing it, I can tell before we even start that it may be quite involved ... if we did, I would prefer if we just took it passage by passage, beginning with the one you were citing here in Jude. If you send me a novel, I'll still end up breaking it down passage by passage anyway. But maybe we could start there and see how it goes?

You are welcome. Sure we can do that. Allow me to create a thread a little later in the Bible Study section. I do not desire to overwhelm anyone, but to share and discuss that which is needful.

Today is the funeral of the little girl, and I am attending. So I would ask all for a little time for me to begin that thread. It may be today, a little later tonight as God wills.

Hidden In Him · Jun 19, 2018

TheHolyBookEnds said:
You are welcome. Sure we can do that. Allow me to create a thread a little later in the Bible Study section. I do not desire to overwhelm anyone, but to share and discuss that which is needful.

Today is the funeral of the little girl, and I am attending. So I would ask all for a little time for me to begin that thread. It may be today, a little later tonight as God wills.

Take your time, and God bless. If I don't respond, just PM me. For some reason I'm not always getting my alerts.

APAK · Jun 19, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
I’ve always heard God hid the body of Moses. Is this true? I’ve never really thought about the body of Moses until there seemed to be a possible answer. Why did Micheal the archangel dispute with the devil over the body of Moses? Why is this strange verse in the Word with nothing more given, seeming out of place. Who is Micheal the archangel? Why did they both want the body of Moses? Who is the body of Christ? Are we not hidden? Is Christ not hidden within parables? Proverbs 28:12 When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is hidden.

Jude 1:9
[9] Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Zechariah 3:1-4
[1] And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord , and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. [2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

The Lord disputes with Satan over Joshua:‘Is this not a brand plucked out of the fire?’

The Lord disputes with Satan over Peter: Mark 8:33
[33] But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

Romans 8:18-19
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. [19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Where is the body of God(Christ) hidden?
What does sepulchre and the burial place have to do with it?

We are of His bones?? Psalm 34:19-20
[19] Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all. [20] He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.

Psalm 22:16-18
[16] For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. [17] I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. [18] They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

VIJ:
Some thoughts on your thread title...

Moses’ body had to be hidden by God; so, the Israelites would not turn Moses into an idol of worship, as they were in a very fragile state of belief in God.

They believed more in Moses on the eve of reaching Canaan. Seeing was believing...faith was strong in Moses and weak in God.

Furthermore, even in the Promised land the Israelites still worshipped Moses as a god. Even the Jews of today (not Israelites) in their religion called Judaism, idolize Moses as their savior.

Evil forces would have loved to have a statue/ monument of Moses as the peoples’ saviour. And it would he have happened if the people got their hands on his body and buried him. Evil loves to imprison man with pride and selfish idolization, rather that the source of their life and victory, in God Almighty.

And no, Moses was not resurrected (to heaven) so he could be present at the ‘transfiguration.’

And no, Michael, a chief angel was not Jesus Christ as another excuse and support of a pre-existent god.

Bless you,

APAK

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 20, 2018

The new Thread on Michael the archangel is now open. Please read the OP, and consider making known your current position (it can always be changed later) - Michael the archangel - Jesus JEHOVAH - The Character that will stand.

I hope my sister VictoryinJesus does not mind this post, and hopefully draw any unnecessary heat out of this thread, which is a great series of questions!

VictoryinJesus said:
If there are questions they would pertain to: Daniel 10:11-21 KJV

Is this passage addressed in the zip files?

Yes, though they are ".odt" files. Specifically see "Michael the archangel [10] - Questions and Answers about Michael Archangel - Jesus Texts" and subsection "[10-D] Question 04: How is it known that it was Michael/Jesus that Daniel saw in the passages of Daniel 10:5-9, 12:5-13 KJB?"

I will share a summation (hopefully it will fit in a single post (10,000 is rather limiting (frustrating sometimes) to me).

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 20, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
And strangly a verse prior that stands out: Daniel 10:7
‘a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.’

Yes, consider that same with Paul's experience on the road to Damascus, and Ezekiel, and others!

[10-D] Question 04: How is it known that it was Michael/Jesus that Dn. saw in the passages of Dn. 10:5-9, 12:5-13?

Answer 04:

Michael – Jesus is seen in Dn. 10:5-9, 12:1,5-13, at the beginning, middle and ending of the great prophecies therein, and so likewise, Jesus is seen at beginning, middle and ending of the Revelation. He is the Alpha and Omega of prophecy, the Beginning and Ending of everything of which we, as His followers, have to do, the First and Last to be considered in all things, the Author and Finisher of all our destinies. Thus, Dn. sees the glory of God in vision, even as others had, like Moses [Ex. 34:5-9], Is. [Is. 6:1], Ez. [Ez. 1:1,24-28], Paul [Act. 9:3-7, 22:6-11, 26:16], etc. This is the true purpose of all the prophecies in Dn. [2 Peter 1:19-21, yea, the whole of scripture [KJB]], pointing to the “Rv. of Jesus Christ” [Rv. 1:1] in His own people. Perfection of character, Divinity [His] and humanity [ours] combined, our hand in His, His life lived out in us.

The texts of Dn. 10:5-9; Dn. 12:5-13.

Compare this in Dn. 10:5-9 to the meeting of Moses, in Ex. 3:1-10, with Jesus in the bush on the mountain, and look for the words:

[1] Ex. 3:2 - “... looked, and, behold ...”
Dn. 10:5 - “... looked, and, behold ...”

[2] Ex. 3:3 - “... see this great sight ...”
Dn. 10:8 - “... saw this great vision ...”

[3] Ex. 3:2 - “... the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire ...”, Ex. 3:2 - “... burned with fire … not consumed.”, Ex. 3:2 - “... not burnt.”
Dn. 10:6 - “... face as the appearance of lightning ...” Dn. 10:6 - “... eyes like lamps of fire ...” Dn. 10:6 - “... arms and feet like in colour to polished brass ...”

[4] Ex. 3:4 - “... and said ...”, Ex. 3:5 - “And he said ...”, Ex. 3:6 - “Moreover he said ...”, Ex. 3:7 - “And the LORD said ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words ...”

[5] Ex. 3:6 - “... for he was afraid ...”
Dn. 10:7 - “... a great quaking fell upon ...”

[6] Ex. 3:6 - “... Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.”
Dn. 10:9 - “... my face toward the ground ...”

[7] Compare also Ex. 3:10 - “... I will send thee unto ...”
Act. 26:17 - “... unto whom now I send thee ...”, Is. 6:8 - “... Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? ...”,
Is. 6:9 - “... Go, and tell this people ...”

Compare this in Dn. 10:5-9 to the meeting of Joshua, in Joshua 5:13-15, with Jesus before Jericho, and look for the words:

[1] Joshua 5:13 - “... he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold ...”
Dn. 10:5 - “... I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold ...”

[2] Joshua 5:13 - “... there stood a man over against him ...”
Dn. 10:5 - “... a certain man ...”

[3] Joshua 5:14 - “And he said ...”, Joshua 5:15 - “... the captain of the LORD'S host said unto ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words ...”

[4] Joshua 5:14 - “... Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... my face toward the ground ...”

[5] Compare also Joshua 5:15 - “... Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. ...”
Ex. 3:5 - “... Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.”

Compare this in Dn. 10:5-9 to the meeting of Isaiah, in Is. 6:1-13, with Jesus in the year that King Uzziah died, and look for the words:

[1] Is. 6:1 - “... I saw ...”, Is. 6:5 - “... mine eyes have seen ...”
Dn. 10:8 - “... saw this great vision ...”

[2] Is. 6:3 - “... his glory.”
Dn. 10:6 - “His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass ...”

[3] Is. 6:4 - “... voice ...”, Is. 6:8 - “... Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying ...”, Is. 6:9 - “And he said ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words ...”

[4] Is. 6:5 - “... Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips ...”
Dn. 10:8 - “... there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.”

[5] Is. 6:10 - “... shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes ...”
Dn. 10:7 - “... saw not the vision ...”

[6] Compare also Is. 6:8 - “... Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? ...”, Is. 6:9 - “... Go, and tell this people ...”
Ex. 3:10 - “... I will send thee unto ...”, Act. 26:17 “... unto whom now I send thee ...”

[7] Compare also Is. 6:11 - “Then said I, Lord, how long? ...”
Dn. 12:6 - “... How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?”, Dn. 12:8 - “... then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?”

Sorry, it didn't all fit sister, so continue to part 2 please:

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 20, 2018

Part 2 (continued from the last post, I tried to make it fit, it was close!):

Compare this in Dn. 10:5-9 to the meeting of Ezekiel, in Ez. 1:1-4,24-28, 43:2-4, with Jesus by the river Chebar, and look for the words:

[1] Ez. 1:1 - “... I saw visions ...”, Ez. 1:27 - “... I saw ...” Ez. 1:28 - “... I saw ...” Ez. 43:3 - “... according to the appearance of the vision, which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw ...” Ez. 43:3 - “... the visions were like the vision that I saw ...”
Dn. 10:8 - “... saw this great vision ...”

[2] Ez. 1:3 - “The word of the LORD came expressly unto ...”, Ez. 1:24 - “... as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech ...” Ez. 1:25 - “... voice ...”, Ez. 1:28 - “... voice of one that spake.” Ez. 43:3 - “... his voice was like a noise of many waters ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words ...”

[3] Ez. 1:4 - “... I looked, and, behold ...”
Dn. 10:5 - “... I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold ...”

[4] Ez. 1:26 - “... the likeness as the appearance of a man ...”
Dn. 10:5 - “... a certain man ...”

[5] Ez. 1:4 - “... a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.”, Ez. 1:27 - “... I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.”, Ez. 1:28 - “... As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.” Ez. 43:2 - “... the glory of the God of Israel ...” Ez. 43:2 - “... the earth shined with his glory.” Ez. 43:4 - “... the glory of the LORD ...”
Dn. 10:6 - “His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass ...”

[6] Ez. 1:24 - “... the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host ...”
Dn. 10:6 - “... the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.”

[7] Ez. 1:28 - “... I fell upon my face ...”, Ez. 43:3 - “... I fell upon my face.”
Dn. 10:9 - “... my face toward the ground ...”

Compare this in Dn. 10:5-9 to the meeting of Saul/Paul, in Act. 9:3-9, 22:6-11 & 26:13-19, with Jesus on the Road to Damascus

[1] Act. 9:3 - “... suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven ...”, Act. 22:6 - “... suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me ...”, Act. 22:9 - “... the light ...”, Act. 22:11 - “... the glory of that light ...” Act. 26:13 - “... I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me ...”
Dn. 10:6 - “His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass ...”

[2] Act. 26:19 - “... the heavenly vision:”
Dn. 10:8 - “... saw this great vision ...”

[3] Act. 9:7 - “... seeing no man ...”
Dn. 10:7 - “... saw not the vision ...”

[4] Act. 9:4 - “... voice ...”, Act. 9:5 - “... the Lord said...”, Act. 9:6 - “... the Lord said unto him ...”, Act. 9:7 - “... a voice ...”, Act. 22:7 - “... a voice saying unto me ...”, Act. 22:8 - “... he said unto me ...”, Act. 22:9 - “... the voice of him that spake to me ...”, Act. 22:10 - “... the Lord said unto me ...”, Act. 26:14 - “... I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue ...”, Act. 26:15 - “... he said ...”,
Dn. 10:9 - “... heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words ...”

[5] Act. 9:6 - “... trembling ...”
Dn. 10:7 - “... quaking ...”

[6] Act. 9:7 - “the men which journeyed with”
Dn. 10:7 - “... the men that were with me ...”

[7] Act. 9:4 - “... fell to the earth ...”, Act. 22:7 - “... I fell unto the ground ...”, Act. 26:14 - “... fallen to the earth ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... my face toward the ground ...”

[8] Compare also Act. 26:17 - “... unto whom now I send thee ...”
Ex. 3:10 - “... I will send thee unto ...”, Is. 6:8 - “... Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? ...”, Is. 6:9 - “... Go, and tell this people ...”

Compare this in Dn. 10:5-9, 12:5-13 to the meeting of John the Apostle, in Rv. 1:10-20, 2:18, 10:1-11, with Jesus on the Isle of Patmos

[1] Rv. 1:10 - “... heard behind me a great voice ...”, Rv. 1:11 - “Saying ...”, Rv. 1:12 - “... the voice that spake with me ...”, Rv. 1:17 - “... saying unto me ...”, Rv. 10:3 - “And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.”, Rv. 10:4 - “... when the seven thunders had uttered their voices ...”, Rv. 10:4 - “... I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me ...”, Rv. 10:8 - “... the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again ...” Rv. 10:9 - “... he said unto me ...” Rv. 10:11 - “... he said unto me ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words ...”

[2] Rv. 1:11 - “... What thou seest ...”, Rv. 1:12 - “... I turned to see ...”, Revelations 1:12 - “... I saw ...”, Rv. 1:17 - “... I saw ...”, Rv. 1:19 - “... the things which thou hast seen ...”, Rv. 1:20 - “... which thou sawest ...”, Rv. 1:20 - “... which thou sawest ...”, Rv. 10:1 - “ And I saw ...”, Rv. 10:5 - “... I saw ...”
Dn. 10:8 - “... saw this great vision ...”

[3] Rv. 1:13 - “... one like unto the Son of man ...”, Rv. 2:18 - “... the Son of God ...”, Rv. 10:1 - “... another mighty angel ...”, Rv. 10:5 - “... the angel ...”, Rv. 10:8 - “... the angel ...”, Rv. 10:9 - “... the angel ...”, Rv. 10:10 - “... the angel's ...”
Dn. 10:5 - “... a certain man ...”, Dn. 12:6 - “... the man clothed in linen ...”, Dn. 12:7 - “... the man clothed in linen ...”

[4] Rv. 1:13 - “... clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle ...”, Rv. 1:14 - “His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;”, Rv. 1:15 - “And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace ...”, Rv. 1:16 - “... his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength ...”, Rv. 2:18 - “... his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass ...”, Rv. 10:1 - “... clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire ...”
Dn. 10:6 - “His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass ...”

[5] Rv. 1:15 - “... his voice as the sound of many waters ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words ...”

[6] Rv. 1:16 - “... his right hand ...”, Rv. 1:17 - “... his right hand ...”, Rv. 1:20 - “... my right hand ...”, Rv. 10:2 - “... his hand ...”, Rv. 10:5 - “... lifted up his hand to heaven ...”, Rv. 10:6 - “And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:”, Rv. 10:8 - “... the hand ...”, Rv. 10:10 - “... hand ...”
Dn. 12:7 - “... he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half;”

[7] Rv. 1:17 - “... I fell at his feet as dead ...”
Dn. 10:9 - “... my face toward the ground ...”

[8] Rv. 10:2 - “... a little book open ...”, Rv. 10:4 - “... Seal up those things ...”, Rv. 10:8 - “... the little book which is open ...”, Rv. 10:9 - “... the little book ...”, Rv. 10:10 - “... the little book ...”
Dn. 12:9 - “... the words are closed up and sealed ...”

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 20, 2018

Ok sister VictoryinJesus, hopefully I was able to address everything you were looking to have addressed, and if you need anything more specific, let me know! God bless you and your family.

VictoryinJesus · Jun 20, 2018

TheHolyBookEnds said:
Ok sister VictoryinJesus, hopefully I was able to address everything you were looking to have addressed, and if you need anything more specific, let me know! God bless you and your family.

You did answer all my questions except one. Please be patient. You said “Yes we are hidden in him. However, the devil thought he had a point of contention over Moses, because Moses had sinned in what he did, or didn't do. The devil claimed him as his property. Yet Moses had repented, and God (the Father) forgave him (Moses in Christ), and therefore sent the Son to reclaim that which was rightfully His." Cannot the same be said of every believer? Because we have sinned, the devil claimed us as his property. We repent, and God (the Father) forgives us (us in Christ), and therefore sent the Son to reclaim that which was rightfully His. Where is the old man buried, crucified with and in Christ. Is he (the old man) not buried without the city? As the Son was? Who buried (put to death)that old man? Is it not God that buried Him? Is it not God that raises the new, that which the Son was sent to claim (us)and takes us within the promise land...the mother of us all (new Jerusalem). Moses was(is)a part of that body. His with Christ in God. Jesus told the Pharisees that He had stepped into Satan's house and spoiled it. By claiming what was His.

I do understand how those alive at the second advent are translated right then, without seeing death. But are you saying everyone is, as Moses, resurrected from the dead except those like Elijah? 1 Thessalonians 4:17
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

TheHolyBookEnds · Jun 20, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
You did answer all my questions except one. Please be patient. You said “Yes we are hidden in him. However, the devil thought he had a point of contention over Moses, because Moses had sinned in what he did, or didn't do. The devil claimed him as his property. Yet Moses had repented, and God (the Father) forgave him (Moses in Christ), and therefore sent the Son to reclaim that which was rightfully His." Cannot the same be said of every believer? Because we have sinned, the devil claimed us as his property. We repent, and God (the Father) forgives us (us in Christ), and therefore sent the Son to reclaim that which was rightfully His. Where is the old man buried, crucified with and in Christ. Is he (the old man) not buried without the city? As the Son was? Who buried (put to death)that old man? Is it not God that buried Him? Is it not God that raises the new, that which the Son was sent to claim (us)and takes us within the promise land...the mother of us all (new Jerusalem). Moses was(is)a part of that body. His with Christ in God. Jesus told the Pharisees that He had stepped into Satan's house and spoiled it. By claiming what was His.

Oh, yes I apologize, all very very good points. In fact, you brought those points out very nicely. Now, all I would recommend, is to gather the scripture texts themselves and put them after each thought, and a marvelous power will attend the weaving. Keep weaving (Proverbs 31:19) sister!

I am going to share a thought on something similar in a bit.

VictoryinJesus said:
I do understand how those alive at the second advent are translated right then, without seeing death. (cited 1 Thessalonians 4:17)

Excellent. That is so very soon, for though the time itself may not yet be known, until after probation closes for mankind, when God Himself will speak forth the day and hour, we can know the events in their order:

1. Michael/Jesus stands up; Daniel 12:1; Luke 13:25; Revelation 8:5, 22:11, &c: Probation closes

2. Time of Trouble; Psalms 27:5, 37:39; Isaiah 33:2; Daniel 12:1 &c

3. God’s people delivered; Proverbs 11:21, 28:26; Isaiah 49:25; Ezekiel 14:16,18; Daniel 12:1; Joel 2:32; Romans 8:21 &c;

4. Special Resurrection; Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13 &c

5. Voice of God (the Father) announcing the hour; Jeremiah 25:30; Joel 2:11, 3:16; Amos 1:2; Job 40:9; Psalms 18:13, 77:18, 104:7; 1 Samuel 2:10; 2 Samuel 22:14; Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32; John 12:29; 2 Peter 1:17-18; Revelation 14:2; &c

6. Small black cloud; See Elijah in 1 Kings 18:43-46, also Ezekiel 1:4; Isaiah 19:1; Matthew 24:30; Revelation 14:14-16; &c

7. General First Great Resurrection {{first great} resurrection {of the saints, just, life, before/at start of the 1000 years when Christ Jesus returns in Power and Glory}, raised} 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:31; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:35,36; John 5:29a, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 4:2, 17:31,32, 23:6, 24:15a,21; Romans 6:5,8, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; Revelation 20:5b,6; {All the Holy “Clouds” of Angels {the “reapers”} with Him} Psalms 68:17, 104:3; Isaiah 66:15; Matthew 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16-17; Hebrews 1:7; Revelation 1:7, 12:7 KJB

etc.

VictoryinJesus said:
But are you saying everyone is, as Moses, resurrected from the dead except those like Elijah?

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Moses is typological of Christ's own resurrection first and foremost, and he is also typological of two kinds of resurrection (of the righteous), a (1) special and (2) general (see references above).

There are 2 main groups listed in 1 Thessalonians 4, which are (1) the dead in Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:16) who are still sleeping in their graves (as Moses had) even now (which itself has a special sub-group of the righteous for the special resurrection so that they may see the LORD Jesus returning, the remainder are raised at His arrival), and (2) those who will still be alive, without seeing death at Jesus return (1 Thessalonians 4:15)

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When Jesus returns, the dead in Christ (as Moses was) are raised first (1, to see Jesus coming) and (2, at His coming), glorified and stand upon the earth, a great host, and we who are alive still and never saw death will be then glorified and then translated, and the 'dead' (now alive for evermore), and the 'living' (translated), are all together taken back with Jesus to Heaven for 1,000 years (Daniel 7; Isaiah 24; Revelation 20, etc).

The wicked are not typified by Moses. In their (finally impenitent) resurrection after the 1,000 years, they do not receive glorified bodies, but are raised basically in the flesh/form they had before they died. There are several groups of wicked (1) who will receive a special resurrection to see Jesus returning (2) the general wicked who lie in the graves to receive a resurrection after the 1,000 years, (3) those who will still be alive at the second coming of Jesus to be destroyed by the brightness of that coming (and later to be raised after the 1,000 years).

There is another special case group, that will not be raised, at any point, and be as though they had never been. This one is more difficult for people to understand though the scripture teaches it, and so I generally do not dwell on it too much, but I do mention it in passing.

LC627 · Jun 20, 2018

God buried Moses (Deut. 34:5-7)

Moses was such an incredible servant of the LORD that Satan was still wanting to get him after he died.

Enoch111 · Jun 21, 2018

LC627 said:
Moses was such an incredible servant of the LORD that Satan was still wanting to get him after he died.

No doubt to make his relics an idol to be worshiped by Israel. The RCC still promotes the veneration of relics.

aspen · Jun 22, 2018

Um...i think his body is dirt and waiting to be resurrected

VictoryinJesus · Jun 22, 2018

aspen said:
Um...i think his body is dirt and waiting to be resurrected

This body groans...

Enoch111 · Jun 22, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
This body groans...

You might want be consider going to a fitness center on a regular basis.

The body of Moses hid?

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“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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