Query: Spirits or Judgement?
- Thread starter lastsecman
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(lastsecman;3850)
In the Bible it says that all human beings will rise from the dead in the last day of final judgement to be judged by God wether they'd enter into lake of fire of hell or into heaven with Jesus.However, in the Bible it also says that a rich man and a poor man (in the name of Lazarus i think, cant remember) both died, and the spirit of the poor man went to heaven but the spirit of the rich man went to hell.Now my question is this......If they are being judged (their spirits) BEFORE the day of final judgement, which decided their fate, doesnt it make the Bible become contradictory to itself??? Because the Bible says that judgement would only come at the 'end of days'.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus was only a story, a parable that taught as past event of what is to come. If warning was to be made in this fashion, and surely there is no more clear and severe warning anywhere, it had to be made like that.
In the Bible it says that all human beings will rise from the dead in the last day of final judgement to be judged by God wether they'd enter into lake of fire of hell or into heaven with Jesus.However, in the Bible it also says that a rich man and a poor man (in the name of Lazarus i think, cant remember) both died, and the spirit of the poor man went to heaven but the spirit of the rich man went to hell.Now my question is this......If they are being judged (their spirits) BEFORE the day of final judgement, which decided their fate, doesnt it make the Bible become contradictory to itself??? Because the Bible says that judgement would only come at the 'end of days'.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus was only a story, a parable that taught as past event of what is to come. If warning was to be made in this fashion, and surely there is no more clear and severe warning anywhere, it had to be made like that.
http://www.christianityboard.com/heaven-t9...ighlight=heavenI linked to this particular thread because we had a short discussion about the nature of heaven and I feel it will give you a good idea of what I am trying to explain - please bare with me here.Read the above link on heaven and you should get the concept that heaven and Earth as we know them coexist in the sense that they are dimensions through scriptural documentation. Keep in mind that we are dealing with God who is not constricted by time and space - in fact he made them.I hate doing this by simply redirecting you to various threads, but we have discussed the issue to some degree before and I think it was fairly well stated at the time.http://www.christianityboard.com/death-chr...anity-t331.htmlScroll down to the first post by Phronesis and begin reading from there. That should answer your question or at the very least give you an idea as to where to look. If you have any other questions on clarifying matters, feel free to ask them here!Keep in mind that Christ will return to judge at the end throughout all of this.Revelation 19:11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.Also, for the last thing, I call attention to the Hebrew for God's name and our equivalent - YHVH - which means roughly "I Shall Be as I Shall Be" or "I am that I am." This, in itself is representative of God's ability to transcend time, only He declares what will be and only He has control of it. He alone already knows who's going to heaven and who isn't.
(lastsecman;3850)
In the Bible it says that all human beings will rise from the dead in the last day of final judgement to be judged by God wether they'd enter into lake of fire of hell or into heaven with Jesus.However, in the Bible it also says that a rich man and a poor man (in the name of Lazarus i think, cant remember) both died, and the spirit of the poor man went to heaven but the spirit of the rich man went to hell.Now my question is this......If they are being judged (their spirits) BEFORE the day of final judgement, which decided their fate, doesnt it make the Bible become contradictory to itself??? Because the Bible says that judgement would only come at the 'end of days'.
I just always thought this to be because Jesus had not been crucified yet so redemption by repentance did not exist as of yet. and after the crucifiction he went to visit those in hell. Is this a misconception on my part?
In the Bible it says that all human beings will rise from the dead in the last day of final judgement to be judged by God wether they'd enter into lake of fire of hell or into heaven with Jesus.However, in the Bible it also says that a rich man and a poor man (in the name of Lazarus i think, cant remember) both died, and the spirit of the poor man went to heaven but the spirit of the rich man went to hell.Now my question is this......If they are being judged (their spirits) BEFORE the day of final judgement, which decided their fate, doesnt it make the Bible become contradictory to itself??? Because the Bible says that judgement would only come at the 'end of days'.
I just always thought this to be because Jesus had not been crucified yet so redemption by repentance did not exist as of yet. and after the crucifiction he went to visit those in hell. Is this a misconception on my part?
(kriss;3853)
I just always thought this to be because Jesus had not been crucified yet so redemption by repentance did not exist as of yet. and after the crucifiction he went to visit those in hell. Is this a misconception on my part?
Redemption by repentance did exist, because all the saints of the OT were redeemed through their repentance and faith. This issue is quite independent of the cross, I think. The rich man was condemned not for lack of repentance and faith, but for his attitude of pitiless greed. The contrasting and saving attitude of Lazarus can be adduced from his name, which denotes reliance upon God alone. (This is the only parable in which a proper name is given.)Jesus did not, according to Peter, visit those in hell, but He preached to those 'in prison', who had not heard the gospel, and were therefore, presumably, waiting for judgement. It is also, presumably, too late for the gospel for those who have been judged and sent to hell.
I just always thought this to be because Jesus had not been crucified yet so redemption by repentance did not exist as of yet. and after the crucifiction he went to visit those in hell. Is this a misconception on my part?
Redemption by repentance did exist, because all the saints of the OT were redeemed through their repentance and faith. This issue is quite independent of the cross, I think. The rich man was condemned not for lack of repentance and faith, but for his attitude of pitiless greed. The contrasting and saving attitude of Lazarus can be adduced from his name, which denotes reliance upon God alone. (This is the only parable in which a proper name is given.)Jesus did not, according to Peter, visit those in hell, but He preached to those 'in prison', who had not heard the gospel, and were therefore, presumably, waiting for judgement. It is also, presumably, too late for the gospel for those who have been judged and sent to hell.
ray4: 'Store not treasures upon earth where thieves break in and steal and where moth and rust doth corrupt it, but rather store your treasures in heaven, where there are no thieves who break in to steal, and where moth and rust are unable to corrupt it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also'(lastsecman;3869)
Some go to heaven straight away after they die (The person who Paul saw being caught up to the third heaven
This is generally thought to be Paul himself, who had not then died.
and Lazarus)
The Lazarus of the parable did not actually exist.'According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.' 1 Thess 4:15-17 NIV
Some go to heaven straight away after they die (The person who Paul saw being caught up to the third heaven
This is generally thought to be Paul himself, who had not then died.
and Lazarus)
The Lazarus of the parable did not actually exist.'According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.' 1 Thess 4:15-17 NIV
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