Help with John 12:32

[Scott Downey]

The scripture do say, not all shall become saved, but nevertheless all are equally welcomed by the Gospel to be saved.

The point is, GOD so loved the world, and the Son takes away the sin of the world, not of some individual's only.

Those unsaved are due to, instead of coming into the Light, they rather loved darkness and remain.

The parable is about a man who makes a banquet and invites his reputable neighbors and friends.

But none turned up and some made excuses that they had some personal matters to attend to.

Therefore the man told his servants to go to every street corner cum alley and invite every bunch of non reputable nobodies.

He made sure that his house was filled and packed, that none of the earlier invited guests will be able to get in.

Now, equally the first invitation was to all whom he knew, and then only second he gave out to those he knew not.

Who is to be blamed when one is not saved, or one is saved but not ready and left behind, or in the end one's rejected as workers of iniquity/lawlessness?

Indeed, because in some of the parables he gave, speaks about also the lost, and due to this at the end He cried.

He even prayed to the FATHER about Judas Iscariot, where He tried to keep the 12 saved, but sadly 1 had to be lost.

If it did not matter to Jesus about Judas' lost of his own doing, He wouldn't have prayed to the FATHER.

Salvation a possibility to the whole world, but there's a protocol to believe, follow, be saved and stay safe in the race until our time is up.

Paul was a violent persecutor of the church, but even a man like him can also be saved and finished the race.

We've been discipled that, For what we seem impossible but for GOD all things are possible.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

unbeliever's sins are not taken away, they die in their sins.

John 8
21 Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come.”

22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?”

23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”

And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”

27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.

28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift[m] up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.

 

[Carl Emerson]

chosen IN HIM

Mmmm...

I thought we were not to add to His Word...

 

[ScottA]

Universalism is gaining popularity and a pivotal verse is John 12:32.

ESV
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

Can folks suggest what was meant by John in this verse please.

My thoughts are that He was prophesied to be the ultimate stumbling stone - one from whom no one could hide.

Judgement therefore amounts to Him weighing every mans response, in this life, to Himself (Jesus) witnessed to all men through the Gospel and/or through creation itself.

This is done through the work of the Holy Spirit who convicts the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgement.

Your thoughts appreciated.

"For many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14).

 

[Scott Downey]

The Greek doesn't say "all men", it doesn't say all of what; it just says "all". The translators added "men" or "people" to try to make sense of it. And in doing so, they may have unintentionally created a different context for the quote.

The context is the current prince of this world being kicked out (verse 31), so "I will draw all to myself" may mean Messiah will consolidate EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY under His rule when He has been glorified.

Like having all things put under His feet. He was certainly given all authority and power in Heaven and earth after He was raised and He is now seated at the hand of the Power, the Father in heaven.

1. 1 Corinthians 15:25
   For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. 1 Corinthians 15:27
   For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Ephesians 1:22
   And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. Hebrews 2:8
   You have put all things in subjection under his feet.” For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put underhim.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[Fred J]

unbeliever's sins are not taken away, they die in their sins.

John 1:
29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of GOD, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 16:
8. And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement:
9. Of sin, because they believe not on Me;

Apparently not believing in the Gospel that Jesus Christ died and rose again taking away the sins of the world, people do die with their sins unforgiven.

These no longer die with their sins unforgiven because the Jews violated the Law and the Prophets and the Gentiles violated the law of their conscience.

(By the way according to Romans' epistle, the Jews are exempted because a partial blindness to the Gospel happened to Israel (Romans 11:25). This is until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in through the same Gospel. And so all Israel shall be saved in the end without repentance (Romans 11:26-29).

Because after Jesus' ascension the Holy Ghost came down, and through the Apostles and the church, He reprove the world of sin.

And their sin will be only for not believing in the Gospel and Jesus Christ paid in full for their sin, period.

John 8
21 Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come.”

22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?”

23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”

And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”

27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.

28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift[m] up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.

Jesus was taking to the unbelieving Jews when He have not fulfilled the Law and the Prophets, and nail their sin on the Cross.

Surely at that time, the Jews do perish with their sins unforgiven under the Law and the Prophets, hence believing not the sent Messiah who've not fulfilled them.

But after Jesus' death, resurrection, ascension in fulfillment and the Holy Ghost coming down, the order differ between the Jews and Gentiles.

From then on until today the Jews are enemies of the Gospel due to the partial blindness happened to them, to only a remnant of them have been saved by grace.

Since the focus of the Gospel and salvation went to the Gentiles, till the fulness of them be come in.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Scott Downey]

John 1:
29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of GOD, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 16:
8. And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement:
9. Of sin, because they believe not on Me;

Apparently not believing in the Gospel that Jesus Christ died and rose again taking away the sins of the world, people do die with their sins unforgiven.

These no longer die with their sins unforgiven because the Jews violated the Law and the Prophets and the Gentiles violated the law of their conscience.

(By the way according to Romans' epistle, the Jews are exempted because a partial blindness to the Gospel happened to Israel (Romans 11:25). This is until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in through the same Gospel. And so all Israel shall be saved in the end without repentance (Romans 11:26-29).

Because after Jesus' ascension the Holy Ghost came down, and through the Apostles and the church, He reprove the world of sin.

And their sin will be only for not believing in the Gospel and Jesus Christ paid in full for their sin, period.

Jesus was taking to the unbelieving Jews when He have not fulfilled the Law and the Prophets, and nail their sin on the Cross.

Surely at that time, the Jews do perish with their sins unforgiven under the Law and the Prophets, hence believing not the sent Messiah who've not fulfilled them.

But after Jesus' death, resurrection, ascension in fulfillment and the Holy Ghost coming down, the order differ between the Jews and Gentiles.

From then on until today the Jews are enemies of the Gospel due to the partial blindness happened to them, to only a remnant of them have been saved by grace.

Since the focus of the Gospel and salvation went to the Gentiles, till the fulness of them be come in.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

The unbelieving Jews will die in their sins, unforgiven, same as unbelieving gentiles.
The verses on a partial hardening (partial as some Jews did believe the gospel) is speaking of them as a nation, not as individuals.
It likely is more Jews will believe as the end grows closer. We will see the truth of that if we are allowed to witness it.

Nevertheless, all Israel will be saved, because believing gentiles have been grafted into the vine which is Christ. There is no longer jew or gentile. Gentiles are part of the family when they believe, same as jews.
They are become one new man in Christ

Ephesians 2

Brought Near by His Blood​

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Christ Our Peace​

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Christ Our Cornerstone​

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[Fred J]

The unbelieving Jews will die in their sins, unforgiven, same as unbelieving gentiles.

Nope, as we've testified that the Jews or all Israel, are exempted due to the partial blindness is happened to them.

Meaning, partially blinding them the Gospel message and GOD had concluded them all in unbelief (Romans 11:32), due to the salvation of the Gentiles.

On the other hand, is not about partial Jews being saved and partially not.

Romans 11:
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

According to Apostle Paul, besides all Israel there is indeed a remnant saved by the election of grace.

(All Israel or all Jews will be saved in the end, is referring solely to the descendants of Jacob and his 12 sons, and not anyone who claim to be a Jew)

When Jesus said that the Holy Ghost will reprove the world of sin, is referring to the Gentiles.

Therefore, the Gentiles or self claim Jews when they're not, who do not believe in the Gospel and Jesus Christ paid in full for their sins, will die with their sins unforgiven.

The verses on a partial hardening (partial as some Jews did believe the gospel) is speaking of them as a nation, not as individuals.

Again, is not about partial Jews believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the partial rest did not.

But rather partial blindness to the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and He's the Messiah.

It likely is more Jews will believe as the end grows closer. We will see the truth of that if we are allowed to witness it.

All Israel or all true Jews will be saved in the end not because of the Gospel, but because of election, beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

Romans 11:
27. For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes (Gentiles): but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling (Romans 9:4&5) of GOD are without repentance.

Towards the reign of anti-Christ, there will be 2 witnesses sent to Israel to minister to them, until they're killed.

In the end when all Israel is saved and in Heaven, then they will come to knowledge Jesus was their Messiah and the Son of GOD.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ who is Lord

 

[Scott Downey]

Nope, as we've testified that the Jews or all Israel, are exempted due to the partial blindness is happened to them.

Meaning, partially blinding them the Gospel message and GOD had concluded them all in unbelief (Romans 11:32), due to the salvation of the Gentiles.

On the other hand, is not about partial Jews being saved and partially not.

Romans 11:
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

According to Apostle Paul, besides all Israel there is indeed a remnant saved by the election of grace.

(All Israel or all Jews will be saved in the end, is referring solely to the descendants of Jacob and his 12 sons, and not anyone who claim to be a Jew)

When Jesus said that the Holy Ghost will reprove the world of sin, is referring to the Gentiles.

Therefore, the Gentiles or self claim Jews when they're not, who do not believe in the Gospel and Jesus Christ paid in full for their sins, will die with their sins unforgiven.

Again, is not about partial Jews believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the partial rest did not.

But rather partial blindness to the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and He's the Messiah.

All Israel or all true Jews will be saved in the end not because of the Gospel, but because of election, beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

Romans 11:
27. For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes (Gentiles): but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling (Romans 9:4&5) of GOD are without repentance.

Towards the reign of anti-Christ, there will be 2 witnesses sent to Israel to minister to them, until they're killed.

In the end when all Israel is saved and in Heaven, then they will come to knowledge Jesus was their Messiah and the Son of GOD.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ who is Lord

In contrast to what you wrote is this, not all Israel of the Jews are saved, only a small remnant are saved.
Only a small seed is preserved, the vast number of the Jews, God was not pleased with them, when they die they go to hell.

And true Israel is not made of Jews only, it is also made of gentiles, as in all He has called.

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Romans 9

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”

26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For [b]He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of [c]Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

Present Condition of Israel​

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

 

[Scott Downey]

As Paul says not all Israel is of Israel.
Jesus called the unbelieving Jews sons of the devil.
They were definitely not of Israel, read John 8.

Romans 9
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”

Paul is saying the true Israel is made of both called Jews and called Gentiles, and no one else is saved as only the elect obtain the salvation.
And there is a remnant of them chosen by God's grace.

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”


22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Fred J]

In contrast to what you wrote is this, not all Israel of the Jews are saved, only a small remnant are saved.

According to Romans chapter 9-11, only a remnant under the election of grace, meaning the Gospel is apparently grace and truth.

The partial blindness and jealousy on the rest of the Jews was caused by GOD HIMSELF.

So that the Gospel will be taken to the Gentiles from then on.

For the meantime mercy have been shown to the Gentiles until the full number be come in.

Therefore in the end, the same mercy will be shown to all unsaved Israel, where GOD HIMSELF will take away their sins. (Romans 11:27&31)

Only a small seed is preserved, the vast number of the Jews, God was not pleased with them, when they die they go to hell.

Nope, all seed came from Jacob and his 12 sons are preserved, even though a remnant saved under the election of grace.!

The mystery to all unsaved and enemies to the Gospel Israel's salvation was only revealed later through Apostle Paul.

And true Israel is not made of Jews only, it is also made of gentiles, as in all He has called.

You're totally off!

True Israelites are made of Jews only, who are from the linage of Jacob and his 12 sons, those who came out of Egypt and after. (The ones came out of Egypt were slightly more than a million, imagine the growth to the time of Christ in Israel and after, even scattered ones, and till today worldwide?)

Only under the election of grace that is the Gospel, the saved remnant of Jews and Gentiles have become the 'one body of Christ'.

Shalom in the name of Christ Jesus the Lord

 

[Scott Downey]

According to Romans chapter 9-11, only a remnant under the election of grace, meaning the Gospel is apparently grace and truth.

The partial blindness and jealousy on the rest of the Jews was caused by GOD HIMSELF.

So that the Gospel will be taken to the Gentiles from then on.

For the meantime mercy have been shown to the Gentiles until the full number be come in.

Therefore in the end, the same mercy will be shown to all unsaved Israel, where GOD HIMSELF will take away their sins. (Romans 11:27&31)

Nope, all seed came from Jacob and his 12 sons are preserved, even though a remnant saved under the election of grace.!

The mystery to all unsaved and enemies to the Gospel Israel's salvation was only revealed later through Apostle Paul.

You're totally off!

True Israelites are made of Jews only, who are from the linage of Jacob and his 12 sons, those who came out of Egypt and after. (The ones came out of Egypt were slightly more than a million, imagine the growth to the time of Christ in Israel and after, even scattered ones, and till today worldwide?)

Only under the election of grace that is the Gospel, the saved remnant of Jews and Gentiles have become the 'one body of Christ'.

Shalom in the name of Christ Jesus the Lord

There is only one people of God.
A holy nation. His own special people.
1 Peter 2

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.