shnarkle
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- Nov 10, 2013
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You seem to be engaging in some anachronistic argument now for what reason I don't know. This isn't complicated. It's just simple wordplay. Jesus came into his own, and his own knew him not. They killed him. This is what "Judas Iscariot" sounds like to the Greek speaking Jews who were using these narratives.If it is calling him a member of the Dagger sect, how is that a word play?
Most definitely. His name literally means "God's salvation". He personifies God's salvation which is perfect selfless obedience to God's law.Do you think Jesus was a literary device also?
I have already, and quite a few. Here's yet another one:Why don't you show one verse about God saving men's souls before they believed instead of saving them through faith?
"7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
Note that prior to salvation, one cannot be subject to God's law at all.
"8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
This claim is not qualified. There are no exceptions. They that are in the flesh cannot please God no matter what they do.
"9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you."
And that doesn't come about through belief or faith as faith is a work, and works will never save anyone. Note also the condition, e.g. "if the Spirit of God dwell in you".
"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
They must receive the Spirit of Christ first.
"10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousnes."
Note that the body is dead regardless of whether Christ is in you, but when Christ is in you, there can be no sin as there is no sin in Christ. Christ will not lead anyone to sin.
Didn't I respond to them? Yep. I addressed both of them.I quoted I Corinthians 15:1-13 and Romans 10:9-10.
Notice what it says in the next verse: " And they spake unto him the word of the Lord," That is what precedes belief. He can't believe on Christ without knowing who Christ is in the first place. The whole scene is a metaphor for the gospel. Paul has been imprisoned. The guard is a freeman, and yet he suddenly becomes aware of the fact that he is under a death penalty while Paul is the one who is actually free. That sudden awareness is what has been given to him in order that he may seek salvation. That is the gift of repentance which allows him to then hear the word, and be saved.Paul says this in Acts 16 "“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved...."
It is right in line with Paul's point that the law points to Christ. Believe in God's salvation and you will be saved. Those who must rely upon Christ to cover their sins are believers. They just haven't received the gospel. They are not yet able to manifest it without their own will and effort. Christ points out that it is the easiest thing in the world to do(e.g. "my yoke is easy, my burden light").
You don't choose Christ, he chooses you. "Flesh has not revealed this, but my father in heaven". "no man can please God" "No man is righteous". "No man comes to me unless the father draw him". Repentance is a gift, and only those who receive that gift can repent. Belief is a consequence of salvation.Where does He say, "God will save you before you believe" or "God will save you whether you believe or not?" I cannot find this in the Bible.
I'm not saying the faith comes later either. The faith is Christ's faith implanted in the believer which then allows them to hear and believe the gospel message. Paul says we are saved through the faith of Christ, not our own faith. Faith is a work. He even points this out by saying, "NOT of works lest anyone boast".Paul says we are saved through faith, not that the faith comes later.
Right. One must be under condemnation prior to being saved, and the damned are incapable of saving themselves. You keep forgetting that fact. The damned cannot repent in the first place. They have to be convicted by the spirit. They have to be pricked to the core of their being and see that there is absolutely nothing in them that warrants salvation. There is nothing that can enable them to be pleasing to God. Zilch, nada, the big goose egg. After they've been convicted, they are given the gift of repentance which allows them to believe and manifest God's will.The verses you referred to do not support that idea that salvation comes first.
It proves my point.This is a different topic.
One canot believe in the first place without that same saving faith. No one can beleive without faith, and that faith is the faith OF Christ. It is his faith inplanted, and dwelling within the beleiver.Paul says faith is a gift of God, but he says that we are saved through faith, not before we believe.
No one has forgotten your position.the issue I addressed was not the Father drawing people, but the idea that people are saved before they believe.
Nor would I, but then there is no effective difference in their position and yours as you are also arguing that what one knows is what is important.I would not think believing Christ died on a different shaped instrument is the issue.
Yep, and focusing on one to the exclusion of the others, or assuming that an understanding is of primary importance isn't biblical. There is such a thing as faith seeking understanding that allows for a lack of understanding.The Bible says to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.