Torture works ? but it's wrong

Torture does not work, it never works. Indeed if you torture someone for long enough all you will get is what they think will stop you hurting them.

QUOTE
QUOTE (kiwimac @ Apr 24 2009, 06:46 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72935
Torture does not work, it never works. Indeed if you torture someone for long enough all you will get is what they think will stop you hurting them.
I agree...that's why I know God doesn't torture for eternity either. The judgments of God are eonian, not "eternal." The Greek word comes from the word aion, which means "an age; eon." They are not unending. They pertain to an age, a limited period of time, because they are designed to correct sinners, not to consign them to an eternal state of separation from God.The judgment is pictured in terms of "fire." God Himself is a consuming fire. He is a passionate God. The Hebrew word for an "angry God" actually means a passionate God. He is a consuming fire. The law, which expresses His character, is also called "a fiery law" (Deut. 33:2). The law is the fire which judges mankind in order to correct all men and bring them into alignment with His character.But there is no torture prescribed in the divine law, because torture is not a fruit of the Spirit.It is unfortunate that so many do not realize this, because they have turned millions of people aside by presenting such an unjust God who would be willing to torture people for the smallest sin. We hate what our government has done to our enemies. Just thinkhow we look to the rest of the world. We must LOVE our enemies...not torment them.The Apostle Paul goes further, defining the Love of God in Romans 5:7, 8," (7) For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die, (8) But God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."Men of all religions would die for their leaders or for righteous causes. But who would die for an enemy? Only Jesus would do such a thing--and those who follow His example. So when our government would rather kill their enemies than to give their lives for their enemies, when Patriots are willing only to give their lives for their own country or families or tribes, how are we any different from anyone else? Would Jesus use the water torture upon His enemies? No, but former Vice President Dick Cheney is out there extolling the virtues of waterboarding even today. He believed in stripping prisoners naked and forcing them to commit homosexual acts or to stand naked while Lyndie England was photographed pointing at their genitals.Mr. Cheney does not believe Jesus. He actively promotes degradation, and immoral behavior in the name of self-interest, and is proud of it. Unfortunately, all of us Americans share the guilt in the eyes of the world.So let us be Christians first. Our loyalty should be to Jesus, and our love and actions should match our loyalty.Logabe

QUOTE (logabe @ Apr 24 2009, 10:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72939
I agree...that's why I know God doesn't torture for eternity either. The judgments of God are eonian, not "eternal." The Greek word comes from the word aion, which means "an age; eon." They are not unending. They pertain to an age, a limited period of time, because they are designed to correct sinners, not to consign them to an eternal state of separation from God.The judgment is pictured in terms of "fire." God Himself is a consuming fire. He is a passionate God. The Hebrew word for an "angry God" actually means a passionate God. He is a consuming fire. The law, which expresses His character, is also called "a fiery law" (Deut. 33:2). The law is the fire which judges mankind in order to correct all men and bring them into alignment with His character.But there is no torture prescribed in the divine law, because torture is not a fruit of the Spirit.King David tortured in his war days. If your going to win sometimes certain things are used to end wars that will save a lot more lives.It is unfortunate that so many do not realize this, because they have turned millions of people aside by presenting such an unjust God who would be willing to torture people for the smallest sin. We hate what our government has done to our enemies. Just thinkhow we look to the rest of the world. We must LOVE our enemies...not torment them.The Apostle Paul goes further, defining the Love of God in Romans 5:7, 8," (7) For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die, (8) But God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."Men of all religions would die for their leaders or for righteous causes. But who would die for an enemy? Only Jesus would do such a thing--and those who follow His example. So when our government would rather kill their enemies than to give their lives for their enemies, when Patriots are willing only to give their lives for their own country or families or tribes, how are we any different from anyone else? Would Jesus use the water torture upon His enemies? No, but former Vice President Dick Cheney is out there extolling the virtues of waterboarding even today. He believed in stripping prisoners naked and forcing them to commit homosexual acts or to stand naked while Lyndie England was photographed pointing at their genitals.Mr. Cheney does not believe Jesus. He actively promotes degradation, and immoral behavior in the name of self-interest, and is proud of it. Unfortunately, all of us Americans share the guilt in the eyes of the world.So let us be Christians first. Our loyalty should be to Jesus, and our love and actions should match our loyalty.Logabe

QUOTE (kiwimac @ Apr 24 2009, 07:46 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72935
Torture does not work, it never works. Indeed if you torture someone for long enough all you will get is what they think will stop you hurting them.
It worked when God tortured Saul now Paul!

QUOTE (crooner @ Apr 30 2009, 04:55 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73141
It worked when God tortured Saul now Paul!
What a fascinating reply. HOW exactly did God torture Paul?

Terrorism and torture are functions of people of the unsaved world. It is not really our issue to define the rules for such things. Within Christianity we are called to employ forgiveness and reconciliation to solve our problems.By definition the things the non-Christian world does pales in comparrison to waterboarding a Taliban. Daily violence , beating the innocent , murders , these things happen around us continually. Often right next door .We accept them readily enough in society but dare torture a terrorist ...... all of a sudden you want to protect him ???? Please do not ask me what God thinks. The terrorist already has separated himself from God. So have the un-saved. Their end will be unpleasant. A bit of waterboarding in the meantime makes no difference to the final outcome.As a Christian who hates torture I would be quick to point out that if a criminal took my family hostage and was going to kill them , If I got my hands on him he would be talking within 5 minutes. As far as what God thinks? The guy is going to hell anyway. What is the big deal.Never forget the terrorist who you do not want to waterboard today is the same guy who would behead the Christian in Revelation. Heck he even does it now. Don't kid yourself. Satan loves it when mis-guided kindness is shown toward his workers.