Why the trinity?

101G · Jun 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
I don't know which name He was referring to...but I compare it to when we pray we pray in Jesus name...so maybe He meant all of His names. lol

First thanks for the reply, second, God have only "ONE", count it "ONE" name. he has many "TITLES", but on ly ONE name.

see titles are not PROPER name nor are COMMON name are Proper names. nor is an Appellation or Epithet a PROPER NAME.

so no, God have only ONE name... Yeshua... translaterated ... JESUS.

PICJAG.

charity · Jun 13, 2020

'For through Him (God the Son)
we both have access
by one Spirit (God the Holy Spirit)
unto the Father.' (God the Father).
(Eph 2:18)

'For we are the circumcision,
which worship God (God the Father)
in the spirit, (God the Holy Spirit)
and rejoice in Christ Jesus, (God the Son)
and have no confidence in the flesh.'
(Php 3:3)

'But we are bound to give thanks alway to God (God the Father)
for you, brethren beloved of the Lord,
because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: (God the Holy Spirit)
Whereunto He called you by our gospel,
to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (God the Son)
(2 Thess. 2:13-14)

101G · Jun 13, 2020

charity said:
'For through Him (The Son)
we both have access
by one Spirit (The Holy Spirit)
unto the Father.' (God the Father).
(Eph 2:18)

thanks for the reply, lets examine what is said here in this verse. the "Son" and the "Father" are only Titles of the Holy Ghost.

lets reason. the title "Son" is used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. it have no reference to GENDER. so the title "Son" is in reference to God the Spirit "character" or his characteristics. listen God is Holy, he's a Holy God. "Holy" is God character, and "Spirit" is his NATURE, hence the title .... "Holy" Spirit. Holy is God character and Spirit is his NATURE. and the nature declare that he is the "Father" or source of all things because he "MADE ALL THINGS". and that's JESUS, because, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

see charity, "ALL THINGS" was made by him not through anyone elese, because he who made all thing was "ALONE, and "BY HIMSELF", supportive scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

see charity, JESUS, was alone when he MADE ALL THINGS. and by making all things he is called "Father" because he is the "SOURCE" or the beginning of "ALL THINGS", hence the title .... "FATHER".

see it now?

PICJAG.

Taken · Jun 13, 2020

101G said:
YES, God the Holy Spirit was in Christ, but not in JESUS, but in the Christ.

we need to look very carefully at what the scripture states.

question was not it God in Flesh? but was he not anointed with the Spirit at his baptis? so who was in that flesh when that flesh was born?

for the scripture clearly states, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." and is not the "WORD" God, the same Person?

PICJAG

Remember: Jesus is Our Example.
Jesus came to Earth in the LIKENESS AS a man...he was a baby, a boy, a man...
( He came Without power...
Received His Power...and Showed Himself "as" the Christ...who IS THE POWER of God.)

1 Cor 1:

[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

His being the Christ, WAS Revealed to men who had only known Him as a man.

From the beginning, God taught by Revealing little bit by bit of knowledge and understanding....same as we teach children...little bit by bit.

The Disciples First knew Jesus AS A man...but learned bit by bit, He IS The Christ, whom they thereafter Knew Him in Spirit, and no more AS A Man.

2 Cor 5:

[16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Remember Jesus for what He Did, yet know He has always been the Christ God Prepared to come into the World, on a day God Chose.

Glory to God,
Taken

charity · Jun 13, 2020

101G said:
YES, God the Holy Spirit was in Christ, but not in JESUS, but in the Christ.

we need to look very carefully at what the scripture states.

question was not it God in Flesh? but was he not anointed with the Spirit at his baptis? so who was in that flesh when that flesh was born?

for the scripture clearly states, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." and is not the "WORD" God, the same Person?

PICJAG

'To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.'
(2 Cor. 5:19)

Hello @101G,

'The Word' is a title of the Lord Jesus Christ. of Whom it is prophetically spoken, 'a body hast Thou prepared Me.' (Hebrews 10:5) He was the only begotten of the Father. The Word is indeed God, as the Lord Jesus Christ is God incarnate.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

101G · Jun 13, 2020

Taken said:
Remember: Jesus is Our Example.
Jesus came to Earth in the LIKENESS AS a man...he was a baby, a boy, a man...
( He came Without power...
Received His Power...and Showed Himself "as" the Christ...who IS THE POWER of God.)

1 Cor 1:

[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

His being the Christ, WAS Revealed to men who had only known Him as a man.

From the beginning, God taught by Revealing little bit by bit of knowledge and understanding....same as we teach children...little bit by bit.

The Disciples First knew Jesus AS A man...but learned bit by bit, He IS The Christ, whom they thereafter Knew Him in Spirit, and no more AS A Man.

2 Cor 5:

[16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Remember Jesus for what He Did, yet know He has always been the Christ God Prepared to come into the World, on a day God Chose.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thanks for the reply. yes, JESUS, GOD, the Holy Spirit is our example. I have always said this.
next the Spirit was never a baby, but was made or G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself while in that flesh and blood. and was Made in the likeness, likeness, likeness as a man. only upon raising himself in the resurrection did he recieve POWER in his diverified state with flesh and bone, (NO BLOOD).

God revealed himself as a man by "taking part" in our humanity, so that we can "partake" of his divine nature. hence the example. and that we should walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, (Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.).

and yes God came in the fulness of time in NATURAL FLESH to redeem us unto himself.

PICJAG.

101G · Jun 13, 2020

charity said:
'To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.'
(2 Cor. 5:19)

Hello @101G,

'The Word' is a title of the Lord Jesus Christ. of Whom it is prophetically spoken, 'a body hast Thou prepared Me.' (Hebrews 10:5) He was the only begotten of the Father. The Word is indeed God, as the Lord Jesus Christ is God incarnate.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

@charity the "Word" is a title of God, who is Jesus. himself, listen,
Genesis 15:1 "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward."

Jeremiah 1:1 "The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:"
Jeremiah 1:2 "To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign."

Ezekiel 1:3 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him."

one can see this in bible over and over by prophet by prophet.

now charity, who is the Word of the LORD/GOD? answer... God himself. JESUS, without blood, and without flesh and bone. listen,
1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

ok Charity, tell me how was Jesus in, in, in, the prophet in the OT.

I'll be looking for that answer.

PICJAG.

charity · Jun 13, 2020

101G said:
thanks for the reply, lets examine what is said here in this verse. the "Son" and the "Father" are only Titles of the Holy Ghost.

lets reason. the title "Son" is used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. it have no reference to GENDER. so the title "Son" is in reference to God the Spirit "character" or his characteristics. listen God is Holy, he's a Holy God. "Holy" is God character, and "Spirit" is his NATURE, hence the title .... "Holy" Spirit. Holy is God character and Spirit is his NATURE. and the nature declare that he is the "Father" or source of all things because he "MADE ALL THINGS". and that's JESUS, because, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

see charity, "ALL THINGS" was made by him not through anyone elese, because he who made all thing was "ALONE, and "BY HIMSELF", supportive scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

see charity, JESUS, was alone when he MADE ALL THINGS. and by making all things he is called "Father" because he is the "SOURCE" or the beginning of "ALL THINGS", hence the title .... "FATHER".
see it now?
PICJAG.

Hello @101G,

Thank you for your reply. I do see what you are saying. However, it cannot be denied that the Lord Jesus Christ was God's only begotten Son. Therefore not metaphorical but a living breathing man, born of a woman. It has reference to gender, for as a Son, He was also an Heir. The Holy Spirit is not metaphorical either. The Lord Jesus Christ as 'the Word' was in the beginning with God, and was God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.

I have to go now, sorry this is so hurried.
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

charity · Jun 13, 2020

101G said:
@charity the "Word" is a title of God, who is Jesus. himself, listen,
Genesis 15:1 "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward."

Jeremiah 1:1 "The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:"
Jeremiah 1:2 "To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign."

Ezekiel 1:3 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him."

one can see this in bible over and over by prophet by prophet.

now charity, who is the Word of the LORD/GOD? answer... God himself. JESUS, without blood, and without flesh and bone. listen,
1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

ok Charity, tell me how was Jesus in, in, in, the prophet in the OT.

I'll be looking for that answer.

PICJAG.

Hello @101G,

The answer to your question is, 'In Spirit'.

Must go now.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

101G · Jun 13, 2020

charity said:
Hello @101G,

The answer to your question is, 'In Spirit'.

Must go now.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

thanks for the reply, you're 100% correct. JESUS is the LORD who is the ONLY Spirit, for God is a "Spirit", John 4:24a.

and yes, Jesus as the Spirit, the Holy Spirit was in the prophet prophesying of the things to come.

I take my hat off to your answer for it is correct. Jesus is the ONLY "Spirit". Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;"
and that one Spirit is "LORD" OT without flesh and bone, and "Lord" NT with flesh and bone. resurrected without "blood".

good job in answering.

PICJAG.

Heart2Soul · Jun 13, 2020

101G said:
not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

so who name did he come in?
if as you say,
"Yahweh is not Yeshua and Yeshua is not Yahweh.....Jesus is not Addonai, or Elohim, or El Elyon".

if he came in the Father's name what is that name?

PICJAG.

Here is where it all starts getting muddled in my mind and I start getting frustrated....
1. Jesus said He must go but He will send the comforter in His place...
2. When we get saved we are born again of His Spirit and has chosen the hearts of men to live in...but then we have to get baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit...
3. The Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted....1 is leading the other....
4. You can be forgiven any sin except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit....not blasphemy of Jesus.....just the Holy Spirit
5. The Holy Spirit is keeping the antichrist restrained until the time and when he looses him then Jesus comes right on the scene with His army as well.

These are just a few of my conflicts that I wrestle with in trying to see the Trinity as the same person.

Angelina · Jun 13, 2020

brionne said:
When the apostle John was given the vision of Revelation, he was moved to fall down to worship at the feet of the angel who delivered the message. But he was warned 'DO NOT DO THAT'

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God'

Rev 19:9 And he tells me, “Write: Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage.” Also, he tells me: “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”

The Angel differentiates between Jesus and God. The trinity idea does not. Notice how the Angels says he is "a fellow slave of john and has the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God!"

Why does the angle not say, Worship Jesus?

Hebrews 1:6
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

bbyrd009 · Jun 13, 2020

brionne said:
When the apostle John was given the vision of Revelation, he was moved to fall down to worship at the feet of the angel who delivered the message. But he was warned 'DO NOT DO THAT'

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God'

Rev 19:9 And he tells me, “Write: Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage.” Also, he tells me: “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”

The Angel differentiates between Jesus and God. The trinity idea does not. Notice how the Angels says he is "a fellow slave of john and has the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God!"

Why does the angle not say, Worship Jesus?

word

bbyrd009 · Jun 13, 2020

quietthinker said:
Jesus never refused worship.

Two Greeks
...and He hid from them

bbyrd009 · Jun 13, 2020

farouk said:
The truth of Father, Son and Holy Spirit is profoundly Biblical, attested by the end of Matthew 28, John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 thru 17, John's First Epistle, Romans chapter 8, and many other passages.

its a way to worship Apollos bro, wadr
sorry
mithraism and christianity - Google Search
will get one started, but i guess all the relevant links wont start til page 2 prolly

"Mithraism is viewed as a rival of early Christianity. In the 4th century, Mithraists faced persecution from Christians and the religion was subsequently suppressed and eliminated in the empire by the end of the century."
believe that if you like

Jim B · Jun 13, 2020

101G said:
First thanks for the reply, second, God have only "ONE", count it "ONE" name. he has many "TITLES", but on ly ONE name.

see titles are not PROPER name nor are COMMON name are Proper names. nor is an Appellation or Epithet a PROPER NAME.

so no, God have only ONE name... Yeshua... translaterated ... JESUS.

PICJAG.

God's name is "I Am". His son's name is Yeshua.

Angelina · Jun 13, 2020

brionne said:
When the apostle John was given the vision of Revelation, he was moved to fall down to worship at the feet of the angel who delivered the message. But he was warned 'DO NOT DO THAT'

Its interesting that the angel did not tell John to worship Jesus...he told him to 'worship God'

Rev 19:9 And he tells me, “Write: Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage.” Also, he tells me: “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”

The Angel differentiates between Jesus and God. The trinity idea does not. Notice how the Angels says he is "a fellow slave of john and has the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God!"

Why does the angle not say, Worship Jesus?

Hebrews 1:8
8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

101G · Jun 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
Here is where it all starts getting muddled in my mind and I start getting frustrated....

Heart2Soul said:
These are just a few of my conflicts that I wrestle with in trying to see the Trinity as the same person.

no worries, STOP seeing a trinity and look at one person "SHARED" equally with himself. we will examine each concern and let the truth stand. see Jesus is ONE PERSON "SHARED" equally, which is and who is the "ANOTHER" of his ownself, not two separate person but one person "SHARED" with himself. if you ever cross that line of understanding, (shared vs separation), the bible will open up to you. lets get to work,

#1. Jesus said He must go but He will send the comforter in His place...
yes, and he, JESUS came on Pentecost, listen, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
(now listen to this very next verse carefully),
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
there it is, he is the comforter, JESUS said that he would come to them, his disciples. and this is "audience relevance" meanin he, JESUS is coming to them. and notice in verse 22, John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"

now come on now, Judas asked a point blank question to the Lord Jesus, listen carefully to what he said, "how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us". thou here in the verse is refeering to the Lord Jesus. Judas asked "How are YOU going to manifest to us and not the world. BINGO, did you get that H2S, how was Jesus going to manifest to them and not the world. answer, in "Spirit", for Jesus when rose he was Glorified, (John 17:5), in the Spirit which he as God is the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost. YOU MIGHT NEED TO READ THAT AGAIN.

#2. When we get saved we are born again of His Spirit and has chosen the hearts of men to live in...but then we have to get baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit...
YES, being born again, and is filled with Jesus the Holy Ghost.

#4. You can be forgiven any sin except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit....not blasphemy of Jesus.....just the Holy Spirit
correct, thank God Jesus is the equal "share" in flesh, see beibg a "diversity" of his ownself, how do you think God died on the cross. and do you not say Jesus is God? well...... see, we say one thing over there but when we get over here, now it don't apply? see as long as Jesus is in a flesh body, (GLORIFIED), Jesus holds to titles, "Father... "Spirit", and "Son" spirit, see the difference now? so yes, only aganist the Holy Spirit without flesh, for in flesh he is "mediator" between our flesh and His, His, His, Spirit... see it now?

#5. The Holy Spirit is keeping the antichrist restrained until the time and when he looses him then Jesus comes right on the scene with His army as well.
lets see it, 1 Corinthians 15:25 "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." (see Psalms 110:1).
1 Corinthians 15:26 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:27 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him."
1 Corinthians 15:28 "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." BINGO there it is, listen "that God may be all in all". NOW UNDERSTAND,
1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit."
1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord."
1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all."

see it now H2S, see the administrations, or the dispensation that God, Jesus is in? he is "LORD" Spirit, without flesh... and he is "Lord" with flesh.

hence the diversity he is in at this present time. he, Jesus, is the First and the Last, meaning he is "Father" and "Son" at the same time. he's the ROOT and the OFFSPRING at the same time. see it now?

if you can get past "seperation" of persons and understand one Person "Shared" this will end all of your frustrations.

understand H2S, years of trainning of the trinty is hard to get out of your head. but I say this, once the false doctrine is out of one's head the whole bible come simple to understand and easy to believe.

your concerns are legitimate, but that doctrine you was first taught, as many of other, is confusing your understanding that God is the equal share of himself in flesh.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THIS AGAIN.

PICJAG.

Josho · Jun 13, 2020

brionne said:
its very difficult to find trinity explicitly described in the bible.... it is being inferred by those who read it but never by those who wrote it.

As I have pointed out before though, all 3 "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" of the Holy Trinity have been mentioned by the word "LORD"

101G · Jun 13, 2020

Jim B said:
God's name is "I Am". His son's name is Yeshua.

thanks for the reply, but "I AM" is not "WHO" he is in Name, but "WHAT" he is in Name. do you understand the difference? well let us explain,
if I would ask you, "WHAT" is the first woman name many would say "EVE", well they would be wrong. because I asked "WHAT" was the first woman name. and "What" her name is, ADAM. supportive scripture, Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;"
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." SEE IT NOW, "what" THE WOMAN is, is just what you and I and all of us creatures who is living or was living on this planet, we're all adams, wheither males or females. we all are Adams, that's "What" we are.

now on the other hand, if I would have asked, "WHO" was the first woman in name? then and only then would we say "EVE". for the name "EVE" identifies "WHO" she is in name. see the difference in "WHAT" a name is vs "WHO" a name is?

now knowing that, lets see what Moses asked God on the Mountian. Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?"
Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

now two things to notice,
#1. Moses asked "WHAT" is God name, and God gave him exacitly what he asked for, nothing more or nothing less.

#2. and What God gave Moses in name is "WHAT" he is, "I AM" . I AM Lord, I AM King, I AM Wonderful, I AM Everlasting.... ect... that's "WHAT" God is in name, not "WHO" he is in Name.

and the last thing, "I AM" or H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v.is a "VERB" and not a NOUN. bingo, are the light blubs coming on now? VERBS are not NOUNS, Names, or Personal Name. verbs indication "action" in "WHAT" one do. understand now?

so when God said I AM, he's stating "WHAT" he is in name, and not "WHO" he is in name. look up "I AM THAT I AM" or H1961 הָיָה hayah and see if it's a verb or not.

hoped this helped.

Why the trinity?

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