SinSinSin

@Gideons300

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. I’d like to respond to what you said here:

Gideons300 said:

It is not up to us to subdue our old nature. It will be like wrestling a ghost, and yet millions of God's own attempt do so daily. Self cannot crucify self.

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If I’m reading the scriptures correctly it would seem that this is not the case. For Jesus told us that we must deny ourselves, and take up our cross daily, and follow him (Luke 9:23). Likewise, Paul said that we must not let sin reign in our mortal body that we should obey it in the lusts thereof (Romans 6:12). Paul states that those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its desires and lusts (Galatians 5:24).

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Regards!

@Blood Bought 1953,

I think you misunderstand the reality in my life that I am redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

I believe that His righteousness is "imputed" to me.

I have taught on not a few occasions that as believers in Christ, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

And that this means that our relationship to the law has changed, so that it no longer condemns us from the outside...while it does govern us from the inside (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6).

You are greatly focused on justification...and that is fine.

My focus in much of what I am preaching is sanctification.

I may have failed to accurately portray sanctification in such a way as to not detract from the reality of justification.

But I want you to know that I believe in justification by the blood of Jesus Christ and that I know that I myself, personally, am justified by the blood of Jesus Christ (and not by my performance).

That being said, I will say that the blood of Jesus has an effect on my performance.

It does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

I don't believe that it will not perform all of its functions when it is truly and faithfully applied.

If it sanctifies and cleanses...then it also justifies. If it justifies...then it also sanctifies and cleanses.

I do not preach grace as a license for immorality...but it appears to me that you do...and that you have found a way to have the higher moral ground in doing so.

This, in itself, makes the heretical teaching that you espouse all the more dangerous and all the more diabolical as a doctrine.

On the one hand, I almost agree with what you say...I used to practically wholeheartedly preach the things that you preach, myself.

Until I got delivered from my besetting sin, through Ezekiel 33:11-20.

Apparently, from your perspective, I lost my salvation because of that passage; I am now fallen from grace because I picked up on what it says and applied it to my life.

In becoming delivered from my besetting sin, I fell from grace and lost my salvation...

Do you not realize that this kind of thinking keeps people in bondage to their besetting sins for greater extended periods of time in their lives?

It may in fact take a threat of condemnation for some to give up their besetting sins.

It should be clear that in Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41, and Matthew 13:41-42, those who do iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire (everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels).

So, there is a very real threat of condemnation even in the word of the Lord, concerning the practicing of sins in a man's life.

Jesus came to save us from our sins (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14); not just their penalty, but from their power and practice.

1Co 6:12, All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Michiah-Imla said:

If anyone had to be brought up to the same page in the gospel it was Paul himself!

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Paul was certainly the last to get involved, but God declared that Paul was His “ Chosen Vessel” to deliver the Gospel to the Gentiles—that would be “ US”.....Paul was ALWAYS the one that “ won-out” anytime their were disagreements among the Brethren.....God revealed Secrets to Paul that he did not reveal to the Disciples.....mainly Salvation by Grace based on Faith in the Resurrection Of Jesus....The Disciples emphasized the Fact That Jesus was both the Son Of God and Israel’s Messiah.Paul emphasized the Resurrection. As he stated, “ I preach only One Thing , and THAT is ‘ Christ Crucified’ “,........ it is the Gospel Found In 1cor15:1-4 and it is this self- described “ Paul’s Gospel” That Saves In this New Age Of Grace....It is the one we don’t add to....it is the one that we MUST REST In and it is this “ Paul’s Gospel “ That God will use to determine whether you wind up in Heaven or if you wind up in Hell”
Paul May have entered things “ late”.... but so what? Once he entered—- God revealed truths to him that even the Apostles were unaware of....God chose “ PAUL”, not the Disciples to reveal Mysteries that God chose to keep Secret “ From the Foundation Of The World”
Jesus never said for Anybody to “ Follow John or Peter or James “ .....Jesus did say “ Follow Paul”. That’s what I do. God bless...

Michiah-Imla said:

So you believe that all the other Apostles (Peter, James, John), by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, preached another gospel. Which means they should be accursed based on your false doctrine.

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Sure mich.......sure......you brilliantly uncovered my dirty little secret—- NOT!
Stop being ridiculous —— you know better than to make such a Silly Assertion.....please don’t turn in to another justbyfaith or Ferris.....act like you have some sense.....then we can continue to debate...

You are blindly following teachers that are not making this Biblical distinction. And I'm guessing it's because you like it this way.......because you are intentionally sinning and don't want to face the truth about it, right? You tell me. I don't pretend to know for sure.

You say that you are “ guessing?”....... Well , guess again , Chester ..... as always, You Assumptions Are Wrong.
I try not to “ intentionally” sin, but I have the Brains, the self-insight and the honesty to admit that I “ DO” ......You, on the other hand , are an obviously intelligent man, but your intelligence is Limited and the Holy Spirit has not granted you the “ self- insight” to see your True Tenuous Position.....
The Bible does not divide the sins that our Saviour Shed His Blood for into 50 sections and sub sections.....Collosians makes clear that Jesus died for ALL Sins......
Now that I have a New Heart, even the smallest sins trouble my Soul—- If I accidentally step on an “ Ant” , I am practically in “ Ashes and Sack- Cloth for a week.....and “ YOU” think that I want to go out and Sin Up a Storm INTENTIONALLY ? What’s the matter with you?
Sinning for a New Creation in Christ has the “appeal “ of a Drano Enema.Sinning for the “Born Again “ has the same pleasure as sticking my hand in a fire. Do you “ get “ that ?
I Try not to “willfully” sin at any time, but being smart enough and honest enough to know that I will ...... I need a Remedy for that dilemma ! I found it ! It’s called “ Grace” . It can be found at a custom- made Throne , provided especially for such ugly times Of need. An Advocate for Believers hangs out there . He hates Sin , But He is Delighted when His weak, wayward Children have the Confidence and the Faith in His Blood to march up to that Throne Of Grace and BOLDLY request what is theirs! Forgiveness for Sins!
Small sins.....big sins....accidental sins.....WILLFUL SINS also! “ All” sins means “ ALL SINS “....
Any and All Willful Sins Will receive more Punishment here on Earth than accidental Sins, but thanks to that “ Advocate” at the Heavenly Throne Of Grace .....as far as our Salvation is concerned , God takes our Sins —- EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM —- and tosses them into the “ Deepest Depths Of the Sea” where He “ Remembers Them no more”.....If HE is willing to put them on the Cross and Forget them.....so am I.....
Big surprise here !! Knowing all of my Sins are forgiven and forgotten because I REST in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing , makes me want to sin LESS ....NOT MORE. Once again , I think you have to “LIVE” it to Understand it.....best of luck to the rest of you....

Michiah-Imla said:

If anyone had to be brought up to the same page in the gospel it was Paul himself!

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May I add....Paul said he was NOT Taught or “ brought up to speed “ by ANY man.....and that includes the disciples....Many teach that he was taught one- on- one by Jesus Christ in person during his three years “alone” in the Sinai Desert .....I think that is True....
Regardless of where or when , Paul got his Education from Jesus.....no mere man was involved....

Michiah-Imla said:

Are you really going with this?

What you should be asking yourself is this:

How many of your sins were willful after receiving the knowledge of Christ dying on that old rugged cross.

Because the danger of doing so is outlined in scripture:

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Scripture itself shows that the logic in your statement is faulty.

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Once again , Scriptural Ignorance , and by this time it has to be considered “ Willful” Ignorance , completely distorts a man’s “ take” on the entire Bible . Smart Newbies out there? Do yourselves one of the biggest that you will ever do for yourself .....google Andrew Farley, Renee Roland, Les Feldick or Yankee Arnold in regard to Heb 6 and 10 ....get the CLEAR and SIMPLE TRUTH of these “ scary” verse that are FAR from “scary”if you have the brains of a five year old and posses one “ ounce” of Spritual discernment?....

Michiah-Imla said:

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

We do not know what those unspeakable words were. And I never venture into presumptions.

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Paul was either killed or extremely close to death when he was Stoned by the “ stiff- necked religionists “ Of His day. Ring a bell ? Some in here would be hurling stones at Paul as he preached his “ Nothing But The Blood “ Message as I try to.....
Anyway.....it was during that unjust stoning incident that he had his Vision Of Heaven.
Paul spent three years in the desert being taught by Jesus personally ....it was important that Paul spend three years with Jesus....that way when any idiots said that Paul’s teachings were not as valid as the teachings of the Apostles , because Paul didn’t have the “face time” That the Disciples did.....Paul could enlighten them to the Truth....They were all,equal in that regard.
Some say it took 3 years to get the “ Pharisee” out of Paul ....
That could be true....

Blood Bought 1953 said:

God revealed Secrets to Paul that he did not reveal to the Disciples.....mainly Salvation by Grace based on Faith in the Resurrection Of Jesus...

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Paul did not receive any special secret
Gospel.

This was revealed in the Old Testament.

1 Peter 1:9-11 KJVS
[9] Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. [10] Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: [11] Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Peter preached the resurrection:

Acts 2:24,31-32 KJVS
[24] Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. [31] He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. [32] This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

And Peter said the following:

Acts 15:11 KJVS
[11] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

BarnyFife said:

I'm certainly fallible. To say this site is holy ground and then to unleash the amount of levity you have here is somewhat confusing, I must admit.

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“,A Merry Heart is like Medicine”...... I got one of those . My life is also full of Joy.....it spills-over sometimes ,I guess........excuuuuuuuuuuuse me! Lol....

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Paul said he was NOT Taught or “ brought up to speed “ by ANY man.....and that includes the disciples..

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And what’s your point?

The gospel (that the Apostles already were preaching) was revealed to Paul by Christ himself. Instead of hearing about it from the Apostles, Christ himself revealed unto him.

Saul was so consumed with destroying the church that it took a direct revelation from Christ himself to convert him. The Apostles would not have been able to do this. Christ had to stop him in his tracks.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Paul spent three years in the desert being taught by Jesus personally ....it was important that Paul spend three years with Jesus...

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Where did you get this revelation from?

I have read the New Testament many times and I did not read anything remotely implying that Christ taught Paul in the desert for three years.

He had an instantaneous revelation that confirmed the gospel that he already heard that the saints were preaching; The same gospel that he was trying to imprison the followers for.

Paul himself testified:

Acts 26:9-10 KJVS
[9] I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. [10] Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

Michiah-Imla said:

And what’s your point?

The gospel (that the Apostles already were preaching) was revealed to Paul by Christ himself. Instead of hearing about it from the Apostles, Christ himself revealed unto him.

Saul was so consumed with destroying the church that it took a direct revelation from Christ himself to convert him. The Apostle’s would not have able to do this. Christ had to stop him in his tracks.

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I thought somebody said that he was far behind the Disciples In his knowledge of Scriptural matters and “ they” were the ones that “ brought him up to speed.....
Sorry if I misunderstood.....
Look......I’m 70 years old....I’ve had a VERY busy day.....is 5:30 in the morning.....I’m tired.....I feel like I’ve been “ rode hard all day , and put away wet”.......WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME !! ???.....lol.....

Blood Bought 1953 said:

google Andrew Farley, Renee Roland, Les Feldick or Yankee Arnold in regard to Heb 6 and 10 ....get the CLEAR and SIMPLE TRUTH

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They teach falsehood regarding Hebrews 10:26

Do not go to these blind guides.

[Where did you get this revelation from?[/QUOTE]


I don’t know .....possibly “ somewhere in the Back?”

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Smart Newbies out there? Do yourselves one of the biggest that you will ever do for yourself .....google Andrew Farley, Renee Roland, Les Feldick or Yankee Arnold in regard to Heb 6 and 10 ..

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Newbies, do yourself one of the biggest favors you will ever do for yourself.....google Andrew Farley, Renee Roland, Les Feldick or Yankee Arnold READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

..get the CLEAR and SIMPLE TRUTH of these “ scary” verse that are FAR from “scary”if you have the brains of a five year old and posses one “ ounce” of Spritual discernment?....

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Newbies, if you really care about this, read these two passages together.....

Numbers 15:29-30
29One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you.
30“ ‘But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or foreigner, blasphemes the Lord and must be cut off from the people of Israel. 31Because they have despised the Lord’s word and broken his commands, they must surely be cut off; their guilt remains on them.’ ”

Hebrews 10:26-31
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Now you can see that Hebrews 10:26-31 (and Hebrews 6:4-6) are indeed the scary verses God intended them to be. The person who turns away from God in willful sinning is going to hell. He's warning us. If you're living in willful sin turn back while you still can. Don't listen to false teachers that say you can live in willful sin and be saved when Jesus comes back.

Gideons300 said:

So, if Christians are found still battling these things, does this men they are not saved, or are they carnal believers, or something else?

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As a new born babe, one has to crawl before he/she learns to walk. So no, just because a new believer is struggling with the works of the flesh does not mean he/she is not saved; he/she simply has not learned to walk in the Spirit, and are indeed still carnal.

If someone is born again, do they automatically find victory over the sins of the flesh? Or is there something that must happen to "activate" ones new nature?

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I can only speak of my experience and dare not question how Jesus works with another. For me, it took fasting and spending considerable time in His Word to teach me the difference between flesh and Spirit. When you learn to deny your flesh food, and learn to dine on His Word as your meat, then you're stepping in Jesus' steps. Walking in the Spirit then became clear, as I learned to resist sin during times of temptation. Important note: Going without food in and of itself is not fasting, you're simply going hungry. But, going without food while dining on His Word for your meat, then you are fasting Jesus' way.

Matthew 4
[4] But he [Jesus] answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus resisted Satan with these words while on a fast.

blessings,
Gideon

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Good questions. God bless!

Michiah-Imla said:

Where did you get this revelation from?

I have read the New Testament many times and I did not read anything remotely implying that Christ taught Paul in the desert for three years.

He had an instantaneous revelation that confirmed the gospel that he already heard that the saints were preaching; The same gospel that he was trying to imprison the followers for.

Paul himself testified:

Acts 26:9-10 KJVS
[9] I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. [10] Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

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Looks like you skipped over Galatians. I know why You don't like the book because Paul's authority is in opposition to your doctrines. Paul proclaims one gospel and one Christ as opposed to other gospels and other christs none of which can save a man but in fact condemns them as per Galatians 1:6-9.

Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

by the revelation of Jesus Christ—Translate, "by revelation of [that is, from] Jesus Christ." By His revealing it to me. Probably this took place during the three years, in part of which he sojourned in Arabia (Ga 1:17, 18), in the vicinity of the scene of the giving of the law; a fit place for such a revelation of the Gospel of grace, which supersedes the ceremonial law (Ga 4:25). He, like other Pharisees who embraced Christianity, did not at first recognize its independence of the Mosaic law, but combined both together. Ananias, his first instructor, was universally esteemed for his legal piety and so was not likely to have taught him to sever Christianity from the law. This severance was partially recognized after the martyrdom of Stephen. But Paul received it by special revelation (1Co 11:23; 15:3; 1Th 4:15). A vision of the Lord Jesus is mentioned (Ac 22:18), at his first visit to Jerusalem (Ga 1:18); but this seems to have been subsequent to the revelation here meant (compare Ga 1:15-18), and to have been confined to giving a particular command. The vision "fourteen years before" (2Co 12:1) was in A.D. 43, still later, six years after his conversion. Thus Paul is an independent witness to the Gospel. Though he had received no instruction from the apostles, but from the Holy Ghost, yet when he met them his Gospel exactly agreed with theirs.JFB

but by the revelation of Jesus Christ; meaning, not through Christ being revealed to him by the Father, as in Galatians 1:16 though it is a sense not to be overlooked; but by Christ, the revealer of it to him; and regards either the time of his rapture into the third heaven, when he heard words not to be uttered; or rather since that is not so certain when it was, the time of his conversion, when Christ personally appeared unto him, and made him a minister of his Gospel; and immediately from himself, without the interposition, or use of any man, or means, gave him such light into it, and such a furniture of mind for the preaching of it, that he directly, as soon as ever he was baptized, set about the ministration of it, to the admiration of the saints, and confusion of the enemies of Christ. These words furnish out another proof of the deity of Christ; for if the Gospel is not after man, nor received of, or taught by man, but by Christ, then Christ cannot be a mere man, or else being by him, it would be by man; and which also confirms the authority and validity of the Gospel, and carries in it a strong reason for the apostle's anathematizing all such as preach any other. Gill

hope this helps !!!

Michiah-Imla said:

They teach falsehood regarding Hebrews 10:26

Do not go to these blind guides.

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Newbies——Take it to Jesus. Don’t trust me or Michiah about ANY thing. Ask for the Holy Spirit to open your hearts to the Truths of these “ difficult” verses......

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Newbies——Take it to Jesus. Don’t trust me or Michiah about ANY thing. Ask for the Holy Spirit to open your hearts to the Truths of these “ difficult” verses......

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The best place to talk to Jesus is in the pages of your Bible. Read it with an honest searching heart and he will talk to you.

Hebrews 10:26-31 and Hebrews 6:4-6 are only difficult for the person who doesn't want to obey God and live for him. They are no more difficult than the words 'repent or perish' in Luke 13:3.