SinSinSin

[Ferris Bueller]

Looks like you skipped over Galatians. I know why You don't like the book because Paul's authority is in opposition to your doctrines.

@Michiah-Imla , do you believe and teach that works make you righteous of your own merit and so earn and pay for a person's salvation?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Newbies, do yourself one of the biggest favors you will ever do for yourself.....google Andrew Farley, Renee Roland, Les Feldick or Yankee Arnold READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF.


Newbies, if you really care about this, read these two passages together.....

Numbers 15:29-30
29One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you.
30“ ‘But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or foreigner, blasphemes the Lord and must be cut off from the people of Israel. 31Because they have despised the Lord’s word and broken his commands, they must surely be cut off; their guilt remains on them.’ ”

Hebrews 10:26-31
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Now you can see that Hebrews 10:26-31 (and Hebrews 6:4-6) are indeed the scary verses God intended them to be. The person who turns away from God in willful sinning is going to hell. He's warning us. If you're living in willful sin turn back while you still can. Don't listen to false teachers that say you can live in willful sin and be saved when Jesus comes back.

Of course one should read the Bible for themselves —- and as a result , come out with a brain full of religious Mush like you see in certain posts everyday.....
The Bible is not easy to understand....and it can be a very dangerous book if not “ rightly Divided”.God has “ gifted” us with Teachers that can end Confusion and false doctrines .You can Read the Bible 50 times and if you stumble across a “ God-Chosen” preacher as opposed to a” Self- Chosen” preacher, they can go over a verse and pick up something that you never saw before despite your multiple readings where you “ went it alone”
There are God- Gifted , TRUE men of God out there that know the Bible and understand the Bible That are able to explain the Bible 100 times better than anybody in this place. If you are arrogant enough to think that you have more insight into God's Word than anybody else and are “above” being taught by gifted men that God has sent our way , have at it! Go it alone.Many here at this Site do just that......and believe me .....it shows.....
Over the years, I have listened to dozens of great Teachers .....from Vernon McGee to Oliver Greene , From Charles Stanley to Gene Scott , From Billy Graham to Les Feldick, From David Jeremiah to Andrew Farley , From Renee Roland to Yankee Arnold....
None of these people preach exactly the same.....none of them get it 100% right, and I agree with Nobody in everything that they say.But I take away a little “ something” from all of them.
These gifted Teachers are no substitute for getting you nose in that Bible that sits in your House gathering dust.....the best thing I ever “ did” was read the entire Bible on my own. Knowledge is power....ever since I read the Bible and saw for myself the many things The my church taught in error or never taught at all....ain’t nobody gonna B. S. me anymore—— “ I know what’s in there!”
There is plenty that is easy to understand but there also a TON Of stuff that isn’t ! A good “ God- Called” Teacher Of The Word can Present to your Spiritual insights that you never dreamed of and can point out things that you glossed over dozens of times and never really “ saw” until a wiser man than you pointed them out.
Of course, all are granted the freedom to ignore great men of Faith that were sent here to help you become better Students of the Word —— spend your entire life “ studying” the Bible , never improving upon your ability to “ rightly divide” ......you know it all, don’t you? Odds are, however, you will wind up like many people here that handicap themselves by being “ lone wolves” who end up with mud on their faces and as the Bible says , “ they stand ashamed”.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Of course one should read the Bible for themselves —- and as a result , come out with a brain full of religious Mush like you see in certain posts everyday.....

Thank you for defending how the Holy Spirit is able to lead the believer into truth and righteousness, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God has “ gifted” us with Teachers that can end Confusion and false doctrines .

That day is gone. But God has not left us defenseless. John is very specific how God gives every believer the Spirit of discernment to know what is truth and what is not when they 'hear' something. It's every man for himself these days—him and God alone. I noticed you like to reference teachers, not the Bible. That tells us a lot, BB.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Bible is not easy to understand....and it can be a very dangerous book if not “ rightly Divided”.

I agree. It is false teachers that lead people into not dividing the word of God correctly and which make the scriptures dangerous to spiritual health and well being. That will not happen if you read the whole Bible FOR YOURSELF in an honest and good heart open to the Holy Spirit. Ultimately, error comes through teachers, not through the Bible. That's why God put an end to being taught by teachers, alone, and gave each of his people the power of discernment in this New Covenant to be taught what is truth and what is false. You probably do not believe this. Most Christians do not. Most Christians rely completely on what teachers tell them.

 

[ChristisGod]

I agree. It is false teachers that lead people into not dividing the word of God correctly and which make the scriptures dangerous to spiritual health and well being. That will not happen if you read the whole Bible FOR YOURSELF in an honest and good heart open to the Holy Spirit. Ultimately, error comes through teachers, not through the Bible. That's why God put an end to being taught by teachers, alone, and gave each of his people the power of discernment in this New Covenant to be taught what is truth and what is false. You probably do not believe this. Most Christians do not. Most Christians rely completely on what teachers tell them.

In principle you are correct but in reality its not the case.

Those who are born again and taught of God can spot or detect the true Christ from the false christ, the truth from scripture vs the errors of men. But just look for example on christianity board.com (this forum) we can see all the people who name the name of Jesus have different views on most everything in every thread. And I'm sure everyone says or thinks they are taught by the same Holy Spirit as the other person in whom they are in disagreement.

I have a library full of christian books on theology, living, faith, the gospel, deity of Christ, the Trinity, apologetics, church history, bible backgrounds-culture, commentaries, encyclopedias, dictionaries, handbooks, etc.....

I read or reference them to see how they line up with Gods word as a tool but by no means to replace or substitute for Scripture and the Holy Spirits guidance. They are just reference tools to gain insight on the original language, culture, people and times of bible cities, kingdoms etc....

hope this helps !!!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Michiah-Imla , do you believe and teach that works make you righteous of your own merit and so earn and pay for a person's salvation?

No.

Was there a particular post of mine that prompted this inquiry?

Before conversion works of any kind will not earn salvation for anyone because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

And these sins cannot be removed from your conscience and God’s record but by believing the gospel (Acts 16:31).

But after conversion your works certainly do play a role on how the end of your faith will be affected:

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called

1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

Because the danger is this:

Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

2 Thessalonians 1:4-5 KJV
[4] So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: [5] Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

As far as I can tell many who claim to be converted do not have a mind to carry the cross of suffering to cease from sin.

1 Peter 4:1-2 KJVS
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Looks like you skipped over Galatians. I know why You don't like the book because Paul's authority is in opposition to your doctrines.

My doctrine?!

I have posted countless scriptures.

I have no doctrine of my own. God’s holy word is the doctrine I adhere to and magnify.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

From post #962

Of course one should read the Bible for themselves —- and as a result , come out with a brain full of religious Mush like you see in certain posts everyday.....
The Bible is not easy to understand....and it can be a very dangerous book if not “ rightly Divided”

You have been leavened by Dispensational theology. Your own words expose you.

God has “ gifted” us with Teachers that can end Confusion and false doctrines

Are you sure you haven’t selected those teachers based on this:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJVS
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Because you have certainly turned your ears away from Hebrews 10:26

Knowledge is power....ever since I read the Bible and saw for myself the many things The my church taught in error or never taught at all....ain’t nobody gonna B. S. me anymore—— “ I know what’s in there!”

Someone still has you in deception sir.

 

[Gideons300]

I think a critical proponent is the defense that Hebrews 10:26, that the "willful sin" verse does not mean what it says at face value.

Names have been given for us to Google.... four I think..... four men who have their opinion of the truth of this verse. And ultimately, their opinion is.... well, just four men's opinions.

We all know that in major areas of Christianity, differences of opinion are found, and some of these are truly important to a Christian's walk. One of them is the debate over OSAS. And in every dispute, each side has their scriptures that in their minds PROVES their opinion is right. LOL. And is this not true in our discussion. I see the same verses shared by both sides again and again and discussed ad infinitum. And each side end up in angst over this with a brother in Christ who God died for. Hurtful, sarcastic demeaning words have been shared by those on both sides.

Each one of us have opinions about truths, opinions about how we see certain verses. Everyone simply has an opinion, and the four men mentioned, have interpreted what they have learned and voiced their opinion about Hebrews 10:26.

Each must admit in the realm of possibilities that they could be wrong. I am smiling here mentally seeing your "furrowed brow" dispute going on inside your head, lol. And if that be true, then the real determining factor is...... consequences.

more to come.....

blessings,

Gideon

 

[Taken]

Of course one should read the Bible for themselves —- and as a result , come out with a brain full of religious Mush like you see in certain posts everyday.....
The Bible is not easy to understand....and it can be a very dangerous book if not “ rightly Divided”.

The Bible is Knowledge.
The Understanding of The Knowledge...
According to man, IS what makes sense to him, or another man they listen to.
The Understanding of The Knowledge...
According to God, IS given the Converted WHO seek the Understanding from God.

Rightly Dividing, is begining with the Heart-set, ALL Scripture is True. Rightfully Dividing is Knowing what Applies to oneself and Understanding Why.

 

[Taken]

I think a critical proponent is the defense that Hebrews 10:26, that the "willful sin" verse does not mean what it says at face value.

Names have been given for us to Google.... four I think..... four men who have their opinion of the truth of this verse. And ultimately, their opinion is.... well, just four men's opinions.

We all know that in major areas of Christianity, differences of opinion are found, and some of these are truly important to a Christian's walk. One of them is the debate over OSAS. And in every dispute, each side has their scriptures that in their minds PROVES their opinion is right. LOL. And is this not true in our discussion. I see the same verses shared by both sides again and again and discussed ad infinitum. And each side end up in angst over this with a brother in Christ who God died for. Hurtful, sarcastic demeaning words have been shared by those on both sides.

Each one of us have opinions about truths, opinions about how we see certain verses. Everyone simply has an opinion, and the four men mentioned, have interpreted what they have learned and voiced their opinion about Hebrews 10:26.

Each must admit in the realm of possibilities that they could be wrong. I am smiling here mentally seeing your "furrowed brow" dispute going on inside your head, lol. And if that be true, then the real determining factor is...... consequences.

more to come.....

blessings,

Gideon

Heb 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,

I think the Face value hangs on point blank Knowledge.
Not to be confused with having obtained Conversion. Sin forgiveness, Freed from sin.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But just look for example on christianity board.com (this forum) we can see all the people who name the name of Jesus have different views on most everything in every thread. And I'm sure everyone says or thinks they are taught by the same Holy Spirit as the other person in whom they are in disagreement.

But most Christians don't know the scriptures for themselves. They know a particular teacher's or denomination's understanding of scripture. And so they know scripture that way. And they call that being taught by the Holy Spirit. And it's probably no coincidence that they gravitate to the teacher or denomination that teaches what suits them personally instead of gravitating toward the one that is actually in suit with the scriptures, in spite of what they feel or think personally about it. It's that ear tickling thing Paul talks about. Christians choose what teacher or denomination they will believe based on what tickles them, not on what the scriptures actually teach, because they don't know for themselves what the scriptures actually teach. They know scriptures, but they only know them as their favorite teachers have used them. They do not know them for themselves according to what the Bible itself teaches about them.

 

[ChristisGod]

But most Christians don't know the scriptures for themselves. They know a particular teacher's or denomination's understanding of scripture. And so they know scripture that way. And they call that being taught by the Holy Spirit. And it's probably no coincidence that they gravitate to the teacher or denomination that teaches what suits them personally instead of gravitating toward the one that actually in suit with the scriptures, in spite of what they feel or think personally about it. It's that ear tickling thing Paul talks about. Christians choose what teacher or denomination they will believe based on what tickles them, not on what the scriptures actually teach, because they don't know for themselves what the scriptures actually teach. They know scriptures, but they only know them as their favorite teachers have used them. They do not know them for themselves according to what the Bible itself teaches about them.

ditto

 

[Gideons300]

So, what are the consequences of our error, of we indeed are the ones who are found believing a lie?



Well, if I am of the "need for continued faith to insure our salvation" crowd, if I am wrong, and everyone who received Jesus had every sin blotted out, ever the blatantly willful ones, WOW, what a surprise, right?

So, just to clarify, even if I arrived at the place where I believed the opposite, and convinced multitudes to follow me into error, they have no sin, I have no sin, all is washed... ALL. So, all that happens if I am wrong and OSAS truly is the truth, is to make some saints labor when they could have rested. And when considering even twenty years is but a momentary blip in time, ultimately, the consequence is not a biggie.

Ok, let's swap this around. Getting nervous? LOL. Suppose I am a staunch OSAS believer. I share with multitudes that once they are saved, no matter how far they stray, they are 100% in no danger of any
repercussions for their sins, no matter how vile, no matter how willful they may be. So with that doctrine tucked into their hearts, they do not heed any of the warnings God offers us, and they are many. Sin not uprooted hardens their hearts, and slowly but surely, their faith dies.

And the consequences here? What will the day be like when such a one has to give an account for their lives, for their hearts, for what they made their treasure? Will these not be found to be the goats, the deceived, the ones who Jesus says "Depart from me, all ye that worketh iniquity."

And will not there present as well, with weeping, and wailing and gnashing of teeth, multitudes of those who accepted your opinion as their truth, cursing their blindness, cursing Good and cursing one another?

Do you think me too harsh? Do you feel I exaggerate? I am neither. I love everyone who names the name of the Lord. And I long for all to see what is truth here and what is error.

more to come.....

blessings,

Gids

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No.

Was there a particular post of mine that prompted this inquiry?

Before conversion works of any kind will not earn salvation for anyone because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

And these sins cannot be removed from your conscience and God’s record but by believing the gospel (Acts 16:31).

But after conversion your works certainly do play a role on how the end of your faith will be affected:

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called

1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

Because the danger is this:

Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

2 Thessalonians 1:4-5 KJV
[4] So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: [5] Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

As far as I can tell many who claim to be converted do not have a mind to carry the cross of suffering to cease from sin.

1 Peter 4:1-2 KJVS
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

I hope those who think you teach another gospel in which works earn your salvation can see you do not teach another gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Suppose I am a staunch OSAS believer. I share with multitudes that once they are saved, no matter how far they stray, they are 100% in no danger of any
repercussions for their sins, no matter how vile, no matter how willful they may be.

The original OSAS teaching taught by Calvin did not teach that the person who does not live for God is still saved. It taught that the person who fell away into their old lives of sin was never saved to begin with. Few people seem to know this now. It's interesting how times change. Even OSAS has changed now. Calvin's OSAS has been put to the curb it seems.

 

[Gideons300]

So, back to the four opinions of the verse warning us of the consequences of willful sin in our lives.

I could give some credence to the OSAS teaching, even with Hebrews 10:26, if it were not for the fact there are over a dozen other very clear verses, from every apostle, Peter, Paul and John included, that clearly teach of the need for our continued faith.

And in each case, the OSAS teaching has to come forth with an explanation as to why this does not apply to us. Saints, look, I get it. Why is OSAS so appealing? Because we know us, lol. We know our fickleness, our sins, both willful and otherwise. We know ourselves intimately, with our still sinful natures and love for self. And that fact puts us at risk, if our salvation depends in any way upon US. Am I right?

Is my purpose here to rob you of your safety net? Is it to inflict guilt rob other brothers or sisters of what little peace you possess? Do I want to put people in agony, worrying about if they have repented enough, or are making enough effort? That is crazy talking right there, lol.

There is but ONE reason I share with any who will listen. So.... are you listening?

There is a place God has with your name on it where your obedience is assured, always. No more willful sin. None. Where God causes you to continue in the faith, and where the warnings given are met, not with dread, but with a hearty 'amen' of approval. Where you and God are so intertwined, that your heart is saying "Where you go, I go."

It is a place where temptation will come, but where God makes sure not only that you can stand it without caving to its desires, but that you will also actually take the way of escape He graciously provides.

And when we finally can see the many clear promises of God, and we arrive at the place where we see this not as 'optional' but our birthright we will not be deprived of, the church en masse will awaken and be found making herself ready to meet her husband.

Amazing days are ahead. Do not fear abandoning a doctrine as your assurance and comforter. What God has for you is so far beyond what we can now even imagine, and much of it hinges on our trusting that He has promised to cause us to obey, and to do it with a smile on our faces.

Joy awaits us. All He asks is that we believe Him. Not just believe IN Him. Believe Him. Glory!

blessings,

Gideon

 

[ChristisGod]

The original OSAS teaching taught by Calvin did not teach that the person who does not live for God is still saved. It taught that the person who fell away into their old lives of sin was never saved to begin with. Few people seem to know this now. It's interesting how times change. Even OSAS has changed now. Calvin's OSAS has been put to the curb it seems.

ditto they persevere hence the perseverance of the saints.

 

[HisLife]

Gideon

It comes down to who you believe, in your 3 posts where you didn't actually provide a solution you mentioned "I us we" over 30 times before I gave up counting you mentioned Jesus Once to mock those that think they had every sin blotted out, One thing I get from your posts is you don't understand a Change of heart that wants to do the things God Loves and hates the things God hates

Where your post gets dangerous you imply If you trust Jesus and are secure it doesn't matter if you are wrong you are still saved so why not try this, ...Don't fear abandoning Doctrine as your assurance and comforter Try and strive to Be perfect as Jesus was, Sounds like one put it "you will be like God"

Your posts although full of many nice words are blinded with pride and point to self, There is nothing Of the Cross And salvation, Jesus Is our Righteousness