SinSinSin

[justbyfaith]

I will only say a few things that apply to everything that has been spoken since I last posted in this thread.

1) We do not need that any man teach us (1 John 2:20, 1 John 2:27).

2) The reality is that those who do iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41 (kjv), Matthew 13:41-42), everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. This is God's punishment on those who sin (Matthew 25:46).

And therefore, in order to be saved, you must cease to be a worker of iniquity...and that means repent of walking in iniquity.

Those who are born of God do not commit sin and cannot sin (1 John 3:9)...those who abide in Christ sin not (1 John 3:6)...and it is possible to abide for ever (1 John 2:17).

 

[HisLife]

I will only say a few things that apply to everything that has been spoken since I last posted in this thread.

1) We do not need that any man teach us (1 John 2:20, 1 John 2:27).

2) The reality is that those who do iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41 (kjv), Matthew 13:41-42), everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. This is God's punishment on those who sin (Matthew 25:46).

And therefore, in order to be saved, you must cease to be a worker of iniquity...and that means repent of walking in iniquity.

Those who are born of God do not commit sin and cannot sin (1 John 3:9)...those who abide in Christ sin not (1 John 3:6)...and it is possible to abide for ever (1 John 2:17).

Interesting comments there

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God so From your words are all Doomed or the one showing immoral or grossly unfair behaviour. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

And worse you say to be saved you must cease to be a worker of iniquity

So What is your definition of iniquity? or more interestingly how do you commit iniquity

 

[justbyfaith]

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God so From your words are all Doomed or the one showing immoral or grossly unfair behaviour.

The words "come short" in Romans 3:23 are in the present passive indicative tense...which indicates that it applies to those who are not active in pursuing the holiness of the Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

And worse you say to be saved you must cease to be a worker of iniquity

So What is your definition of iniquity? or more interestingly how do you commit iniquity

To cease to be a worker of iniquity you must simply repent of a lifestyle of sinning and begin to seek to obey the Lord in everything. In other words, you must receive Jesus, not only as Saviour, but as Lord (see John 1:12, Romans 10:9-10).

My definition of iniquity would be "walking in the flesh".

 

[HisLife]

The words "come short" in Romans 3:23 are in the present passive indicative tense...which indicates that it applies to those who are not active in pursuing the holiness of the Lord.

You said Gods punishment on those who sin is eternal punishment but all have sinned, In fact, do you still Have Sin? yes or no

To cease to be a worker of iniquity you must simply repent of a lifestyle of sinning and begin to seek to obey the Lord in everything. In other words, you must receive Jesus, not only as Saviour, but as Lord (see John 1:12, Romans 10:9-10).

So you mean works and you even put salvation on those works, You say clearly in order to be saved, you must cease, instead of pointing to Jesus who made himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity

Could the worst iniquity be taking salvation off the cross and putting it on self, and putting a standard on others that you clearly fail yourself, even under the threat of eternal punishment in hell

 

[justbyfaith]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1Jo 5:1, Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

You said Gods punishment on those who sin is eternal punishment but all have sinned, In fact, do you still Have Sin? yes or no

I have sin; but if I walk according to the Spirit I do not obey the element of sin that dwells within me.

So you mean works and you even put salvation on those works, You say clearly in order to be saved, you must cease, instead of pointing to Jesus who made himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity

Could the worst iniquity be taking salvation off the cross and putting it on self, and putting a standard on others that you clearly fail yourself, even under the threat of eternal punishment in hell

It is not works to cease from doing what is wrong. Works are on a positive level: doing what is right.

We are not saved by what we do that is right...however if we have been saved we will begin to do what is right.

Repenting is a major aspect of salvation....that means ceasing from doing what is wrong. This is not works. I can cease to do what is wrong and yet do nothing on a positive level. Repenting from what is wrong is ceasing from doing what is wrong...and that puts you in a neutral state. You are doing neither right nor wrong...and therefore works are not involved.

 

[farouk]

I think a critical proponent is the defense that Hebrews 10:26, that the "willful sin" verse does not mean what it says at face value.

Names have been given for us to Google.... four I think..... four men who have their opinion of the truth of this verse. And ultimately, their opinion is.... well, just four men's opinions.

We all know that in major areas of Christianity, differences of opinion are found, and some of these are truly important to a Christian's walk. One of them is the debate over OSAS. And in every dispute, each side has their scriptures that in their minds PROVES their opinion is right. LOL. And is this not true in our discussion. I see the same verses shared by both sides again and again and discussed ad infinitum. And each side end up in angst over this with a brother in Christ who God died for. Hurtful, sarcastic demeaning words have been shared by those on both sides.

Each one of us have opinions about truths, opinions about how we see certain verses. Everyone simply has an opinion, and the four men mentioned, have interpreted what they have learned and voiced their opinion about Hebrews 10:26.

Each must admit in the realm of possibilities that they could be wrong. I am smiling here mentally seeing your "furrowed brow" dispute going on inside your head, lol. And if that be true, then the real determining factor is...... consequences.

more to come.....

blessings,

Gideon

@Gideons300 Philippians 1.6 says: 'He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.'

 

[farouk]

So, what are the consequences of our error, of we indeed are the ones who are found believing a lie?



Well, if I am of the "need for continued faith to insure our salvation" crowd, if I am wrong, and everyone who received Jesus had every sin blotted out, ever the blatantly willful ones, WOW, what a surprise, right?

So, just to clarify, even if I arrived at the place where I believed the opposite, and convinced multitudes to follow me into error, they have no sin, I have no sin, all is washed... ALL. So, all that happens if I am wrong and OSAS truly is the truth, is to make some saints labor when they could have rested. And when considering even twenty years is but a momentary blip in time, ultimately, the consequence is not a biggie.

Ok, let's swap this around. Getting nervous? LOL. Suppose I am a staunch OSAS believer. I share with multitudes that once they are saved, no matter how far they stray, they are 100% in no danger of any
repercussions for their sins, no matter how vile, no matter how willful they may be. So with that doctrine tucked into their hearts, they do not heed any of the warnings God offers us, and they are many. Sin not uprooted hardens their hearts, and slowly but surely, their faith dies.

And the consequences here? What will the day be like when such a one has to give an account for their lives, for their hearts, for what they made their treasure? Will these not be found to be the goats, the deceived, the ones who Jesus says "Depart from me, all ye that worketh iniquity."

And will not there present as well, with weeping, and wailing and gnashing of teeth, multitudes of those who accepted your opinion as their truth, cursing their blindness, cursing Good and cursing one another?

Do you think me too harsh? Do you feel I exaggerate? I am neither. I love everyone who names the name of the Lord. And I long for all to see what is truth here and what is error.

more to come.....

blessings,

Gids

@Gideons300 Luke 17.5: "And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith."

 

[Gideons300]

It comes down to who you believe, in your 3 posts where you didn't actually provide a solution you mentioned "I us we" over 30 times before I gave up counting you mentioned Jesus Once to mock those that think they had every sin blotted out, One thing I get from your posts is you don't understand a Change of heart that wants to do the things God Loves and hates the things God hates

Where your post gets dangerous you imply If you trust Jesus and are secure it doesn't matter if you are wrong you are still saved so why not try this, ...Don't fear abandoning Doctrine as your assurance and comforter Try and strive to Be perfect as Jesus was, Sounds like one put it "you will be like God"

Your posts although full of many nice words are blinded with pride and point to self, There is nothing Of the Cross And salvation, Jesus Is our Righteousness

I am sorry you feel that way about my motives but far worse about your acceptance concerning the OSAS teaching.

You mentioned you do not think I fully understand the change of heart you speak about. I truly do, and it is far more than we have ever considered. Here, weakness is not a hindrance. However, If honesty will prevail here, I think most do not see the progressive sanctification being truly 'progressive', and sadly, in the long run, I see a more relaxed view of sin prevail among those who stand by their OSAS stance.

Warnings in the Word are almost never preached or addressed, , lest they upset people's peace. And instead, the warnings are often gutted of their intended effects, and then are often framed with a 'legalism' warning to make sure the warning is not heeded.

The truth is, most OSAS proponents cling to the opinions of a few men, concerning whether Hebrews 10:26 means what it plainly tells us. And why is this? They fear being left rootless, unsecured, unsafe, and I get that. But it is this crisis point that drives us to the place we finally see our deep need for Him to keep us from falling, and to make sure we take the way of escape when we are tempted. And to our amazement, when we cry out to Him to deliver us rom our fickleness and weakness,.... He does!

Look, God has clearly promised to cause us to obey Him. Cause us! Yet how often we see no way this can be so. And why is this? Because our unbelief has blinded us to what God actually did for us when He made us new creatures.

Guys, we ARE new creatures, but here is the deal. Until we see our need, until we hate the old us that excuses sin in our lives, that brings dishonor to God's name, that as no desire to live wholly and holy for Him, we cannot put on those new natures by an act of radical faith. All that is about to change. Glory to God, it is happening even now.

blessings,

Gideon

 

[Gideons300]

@Gideons300 Philippians 1.6 says: 'He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.'

And did all saints get this praise and encouragement? Were some not told by Paul that he stood in doubt of them? Could the Laodecians claim Philippians 1:6 and yet not heed the warning they were given? Just something to think about.....

blessings to you, Farouk,

Gids

 

[farouk]

And did all saints get this praise and encouragement? Were some not told by Paul that he stood in doubt of them? Could the Laodecians claim Philippians 1:6 and yet not heed the warning they were given? Just something to think about.....

blessings to you, Farouk,

Gids

@Gideons300 I do think that someone in the Laodicean situation who, whatever the profession, continued and lived in lukewarmness and unbelief and died in that state, never truly had 'a good work' begun in them, as per Philippians 1.6; this would be how I see it.

Blessings.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Gideons300 I do think that someone in the Laodicean situation who, whatever the profession, continued and lived in lukewarmness and unbelief and died in that state, never truly had 'a good work' begun in them, as per Philippians 1.6; this would be how I see it.

Blessings.

So, if you are lukewarm, you cannot bank on Philippians 1:6, is what you are saying...

 

[Gideons300]

@Gideons300 I do think that someone in the Laodicean situation who, whatever the profession, continued and lived in lukewarmness and unbelief and died in that state, never truly had 'a good work' begun in them, as per Philippians 1.6; this would be how I see it.

Blessings.

Consider the main verse discussed... Hebrews 10:26. These were people who WERE sanctified, and had tasted of the goodness of God. They had the good seed actually sprout but through neglect, the weeds choked out the life of the vine, and no fruit was produced.

blessings,

Gids

 

[farouk]

So, if you are lukewarm, you cannot bank on Philippians 1:6, is what you are saying...

No; rather, make sure any lukewarmness is not fundamental but only a veneer. This morning we were thinking about the Lord's marvellous lovingkindness in Psalm 17: essential for our faith to be wholehearted and not just a profession.

 

[farouk]

Consider the main verse discussed... Hebrews 10:26. These were people who WERE sanctified, and had tasted of the goodness of God. They had the good seed actually sprout but through neglect, the weeds choked out the life of the vine, and no fruit was produced.

blessings,

Gids

Well, in terms of the Parable of the Sower, the genuine believers seem to have been those on whom the seed fell as onto good ground, which truly brought forth fruit.

 

[Gideons300]

So, if you are lukewarm, you cannot bank on Philippians 1:6, is what you are saying...

Of course! How can one ignore all the road signs, the directions, the instructions in righteousness, the warnings, and still have confidence that He that began a good work in them was somehow obligated to still perform it, even if we dig in our heels and refuse to repent of willful sin? Why have the warnings and exhortations at all?

blessings,

Gideon

 

[farouk]

Of course! How can one ignore all the road signs, the directions, the instructions in righteousness, the warnings, and still have confidence that He that began a good work in them was somehow obligated to still perform it, even if we dig in our heels and refuse to repent of willful sin? Why have the warnings and exhortations at all?

blessings,

Gideon

I would look at it in the following way:

Married to my wonderful wife, I do not fear being entangled with another woman.

But I flee from it constantly...

 

[farouk]

P: Stated differently, my feelings for my beloved wife are the opposite of lukewarm, by God's grace.

 

[Gideons300]

Well, in terms of the Parable of the Sower, the genuine believers seem to have been those on whom the seed fell as onto good ground, which truly brought forth fruit.

And that may well be the case. But here is what we have a hard time accepting. When do we actually receive our salvation? Who are those who receive it? Is it not those who endure to the end, receiving the end of their faith, even the salvation of their souls?

The truth is, we prove we are the elect as we continue to abide in Him as new creatures, with our armor on and our swords and shields raised. It is when we are walking as new creatures that we can believe all the promises He has given us, and an obedient heart is high up on the list! Glory!

blessings,

Gideon