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Yeah there were. More specifically, the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. Are you familiar with them? I couldn't resist answering this one Ferris...

So if I said; My people perish for lack of knowledge", what would you say that means?

And how well versed are you to the King James. More specifically, the wording?

Eureka, you got it!!! Hot dog. I thought I was just trying to relate like a bowling ball relates to a golf club. Thank you...

OK, I guess I've put my best foot forward for now. I'll watch the thread, but that'll be it for the time being...

Have you ever heard the saying; "the more you complicate the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain"? The same is true for the Word of the Living God. Please don't confuse me as a Calvinist, I'm not. No robotics here. Nor as an Armenian, because I'm not a liberalist in my beliefs.

Oh Ferris, any salvation that relies on us keeping ourselves is a works salvation my friend...

Hey folks, you're promoting a doctrine that originated in the Roman catholic church. That in itself should make you want to reexamine what you're believing. A work by any other name would still spell a work. A work, is a work, is a work. And that's what you're relying on. A work...

Aw, gee whiz. An effort is a work for crying out loud. You're splitting hairs off a bald man.

Thou sayest my friend!!!

Well, believing is a cognitive action, therefore a work. You can't just say it isn't for making your point... Think about it...

Again buddy, that's depending on our own works. Not God's power to do what He says He'll do. Ferris, if any way will do, no way will do just as well...

Really??? Don't you just hate it when that happens my friend? And I mean literally. Although your opinions can seem unorthodox to me from time to time, you're kinda interesting to have around... Try not to get banned. Okay???

It doesn't look that way to me. (your post) It does look like a halt between two opinions however.

That's true, there are a few Christians in the catholic church. The Bible says so::: Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Oh come on now. Quit basing our salvation on us. Even though we fail, even in believing, God is still able. For by grace are ye saved!!! It has nothing to do with what we do because it's not of, or by us... Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is...

Well, okey dokey. You let me know when you find that. Okay???

Oh, gee whiz... Really??? Nope, don't think so... My Savior said they will never perish. Never does mean never doesn't it? Or does it mean something else??? John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

It is, isn't it!!!

Are you halted between two opinions?