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Yes, Terry, the rapture takes all Christians. 1 Cor 15:51-52 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be...

"fo whom is the rapture needed?" That isn't the point. The question is, whom does Paul say will be taken. The answer is those who have died in Christ and "we who are alive". This is Jesus coming for his bride.

It seems reasonable that the 144,000 of Rev 7 are the same as those of chapter 14, in which case they are Jews, but they do not seem to be connected to those beheaded for the name of Christ who reign with Christ for the thousand years (Rev 20:4). Why do you make that identification? As to...

Yes, I read that post, but for some reason I am not able to reply to it. It has a number of errors. What is this "fleecing gospel " you are talking about? Just calling something "trash" does not show anything except your ability to throw insults. Go through what I originally wrote and refute...

Only 144,000 dead in Christ? After nearly 2,000 years? Are you a Jehovah's Witness or something? The 144,000 are Jews, 12,000 from each tribe (Rev 7). I'm amazed that you come out with such rubbish and then say I am "unscriptural"! Whatever scheme of interpretation you have, it needs to be...

I suppose you are talking of Israel. Ezekiel prophesied their return in unbelief (chapter 20). Paul speaks of their future restoration (Romans 11:25-32) ENOCH2010 The ones resurrected at Christ's return are specifically those who were killed during the tribulation (Rev 20:4). 1 Thess 4 says...

Which elect is he talking about? He is addressing Jews; they are required to keep the Sabbath; they are living in Jerusalem. This is NOT the church. The scripture doesn't say anything about the rapture's being secret. I really don't know where that idea comes from - probably popular...

ENOCH2010, The rapture is part of the first resurrection. There are two resurrections: of the righteous and of the wicked; these are not events but classes. All the wicked are resurrected after the millennium to face the judgement of the great white throne (Rev 20:5,11-13), but the first...

Trekson, "PM" ? SoM, you are still doing it. Please show how 1 Thess 4 fits in with Rev 19, Matt 24 and so on. Do not skate over details; they are essential. If your picture doesn't handle them, it is a false picture.

I can't believe this guy!

JOSY, you claim that the 70 sevens are 490 days and you don't know when they start. However the prophecy says exactly when they start; it is with the decree for the rebuilding of Jerusalem, which is the decree given to Nehemiah, somewhere in the 480's BC. The 69th seven ends just before...

It seems to me, SoM, that you aren't really reading the scripture at all but looking at it with heavy blinkers in case you should see what is really there. Rev 19 describes Jesus' return to the earth; the details do not coincide with 1 Thess 4, where Jesus does not return ot earth but meets his...

Perhaps you haven't read the scripture. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of...

SoM, Your single biblical quote does not address any of the points I made. You need to do a much better job of exposition to convince me to change my mind. Relying on a single verse and ignoring many others is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

At the time John was writing, the angel told him, "five have fallen"; that is past tense. "One now is"; one of them is currently existing in John's lifetime in the first century. The Caliphs are all hundreds of years in John's future. As you say, your eschatological paradigm must be tested; it...

The prayer that Jesus taught his disciples is a model for prayer, not a rote text to be recited mindlessly, for Jesus condemns vain repetitions in prayer. The doctrine of the rapture is thoroughly biblical. It, like any doctrine may be presented in a distorted fashion, though.

SoM, you seem to think being killed is a requirement. Whether that happens to you or not is entirely up to God. When Christ removes his church, he will be removing many out of severe persecution. Others will perhaps be living peacefully. It is not our responsibility to seek martyrdom but to...

Yes, "apostasia" is also used in that sense, but that translation doesn't make sense in the context of 2 Thessalonians. Possible problems: I'll come back on that one; some things struck me while writing this, but I can't remember them just at the moment.

I thought of trying to add to the different threads, but felt so overwhelmed by the mass of comments, some of them putting forth quite bizarre views, that I decided to start afresh. Most of the comments I have seen so far are hostile to the idea of the pre-tribulational removal of the church...

Greetings to all. I have been a Christian for 38 years now. I am always interested to learn more of the scripture. I am English but now live in Brittany, in France. Oliver