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Well, what is the "end?" In Romans 9 through 11, what is God's end? It is God's saving all of His elect, which includes Jews and Gentiles... bringing His Israel to completion. And I would say that God, by the work of His Spirit in a person's heart ~ "provoking" someone to a godly jealousy (*)...

Natural descendants, yes, "by the letter," as Paul puts it in Romans 2, so ethnic Jews. But they are not necessarily of God's Israel; they are not, and not true Jews of God, if they are not in Christ. They are the ones who have been "broken off," but it is possible for them to be re-grafted...

Me, too, but you replied anyway, so, I did. :) Yes. But His promises have a lesser and a greater fulfillment. The lesser points to the greater, and the greater includes ~ not "replaces" ~ the lesser. No. It always was and always will be what it is. Okay, well yeah, don't. Me, either. :)...

Well, it's been my point a couple of times, as I said. Sure, off the same track. That's what I've been saying. You mean as if I haven't (many times)? :) Well, I agree... Lesser Israel. But certainly not "lesser" in the sense of "not as good"... :) Rather a forerunner and indication of the...

Good. I guess we'll see how it plays out, yes? :) Hmmm... well maybe that's because of where you've interacted with them. Message boards like this one are well-intentioned, but the behaviors you see out of posters, reformed or otherwise, very often can bring out... well, I won't say the...

Agreed. Absolutely agreed. But the difference between us, really, Eternal Grateful, is who you and I understand that "specific group" to actually be. I say you suppose... Well, I won't put words into your mouth. It seems obvious to me, but I'll let you answer this for yourself: Who is that...

I mean, theological things, in general ~ or specifically ~ sure. And as you surmised, in that discussion ~ if we are to engage in such ~ I will enter into it from the reformed perspective. But even before that, before engaging in such, I think we should both agree to keep from any sort of...

Same to you., of course. Me, too, of course. No, not partially. And I would say much more fully ~ that His promises are much greater ~ than you seem to suppose, limiting them to only a specific ethnic group. I do, too, of course, but sometimes, that love can seem like something other than...

In your opinion. And I have no problem with you saying that what I am saying is my opinion. All good, right? :) And I would say the exact same thing to you, EG. When in that same verse he says, preceding "all of Israel," Jewish and Gentile believers? Hmmm... it should be clear that the...

Okay, thanks, GG. You are not alone in thinking that. Knowingly or otherwise, many draw their views on Scripture directly from him. Others, independent as they may be, believe along the very same lines as he did. Ah, early Christian fathers and commentaries. Yes, there's a lot out there...

So you think; I get that loud and clear. :) Yes, and together they make up all of God's Israel... as Paul says in Romans 11:26. Right, but the Gentiles are grafted in, which is to make natural from what was unnatural. Well, the distinction is cited, but then resolved. Paul says this in all...

LOL! Yeah, I'll own that. :) So to you too I say, who is God's Israel, GG? Who makes up the Israel of God? And where... :) ...is the land of (Greater, so, true) Israel? :) Hmmm, okay, well, by the same token, maybe you should just plainly read the NT with an open mind and not by listening...

And the Israel of God consists of people of all ethnicities ~ Jew and Gentile. As Paul says, speaking to Gentiles: "Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called 'the uncircumcision' by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands ~ remember that...

Given to all, commonly. Sure, everyone alive, for now, lives under and in His grace, whether they acknowledge it or not. No one is suggesting otherwise. But, not all are saved, which is a particular grace given by God only to His elect. Well, you say this, but in effect, your whole position...

His whole context in Romans 9-11 is God's elect, God's purpose of election of some to His ~ His, not our ~ Israel, the Israel of God, which, if you remember from Romans 2:28-29, he said, "...no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one...

Well sure. :) We all do. :) Yes, there is grace that is common to all, and in that sense, common grace. But the grace of His mercy, His compassion, His salvation He only gives to some. Yes, as Paul says in Romans 11:5, "at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace." Those who...

You are. That's your whole point. He gave us grace because we believed/trusted. That's absolutely backwards. Absolutely not. See above. Yes, me, too, but don't stop there, Eternally Grateful. Yes, "...by grace (we) have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the...

Okay, well good, I was really just kind of poking at you. :) I mean, all this is well and good, but come on, man, going on about it in such manner is... a bit much. :) Okay, well fine, but meditating on God's Word ~ um, our Creators... :) ~ is one of the ways we commune with Him ~ um...

Yes, but you're saying that His grace is dependent upon our belief, and this is not the case; in fact, that is directly opposite what Paul says in Romans 9:14-18, and specifically verse 16 (underlined): "What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For He says to...

EG, apologies for piling on... :) That is not my intent. But perhaps I can help. :) There is a sense in which Jesus did indeed "purchase salvation for the world," and a sense in which He did not. That may seem on its face to be a contradictory statement, but not so. On the one hand...