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The above has nothing to do with our conversation. Which shows me that YOU DON'T KNOW what you believe. Sad for Christianity.

Here's Ephesians 1:4. Let's see exactly WHAT is predestined. Ephesians 1:4 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. God chose us IN HIM..... God chose that we would become saved IN JESUS.... God's plan was that man would...

Can't be both David. Please be clear. We either have free will to choose God or God chose us from the beginning and we have no free will.

So now you've become Calvinist too? WHAT was done before the creation of the world? WHAT did God choose? or Did He choose who would be saved? This is the verse you posted: Ephesians 1:4-5 (NIV): “For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In...

I don't read that God chooses His elect for salvation. God's elect are two: 1. Israel 2. All saved persons The NT never refers to the elect as persons that were specifically chosen by God to be saved. But HOW God elects them is what's important. Does God just want a few to be saved? Could...

Good luck. Not all calvinists agree with each other, which is why it's so difficult to discuss with them.... there are some nuances here that are so minute that one has to read very carefully what is stated. Calvinists do not know why anyone is picked. It's unconditional....so who can know what...

1. Show some verses that state that God chose us before He created anything. 2. Did you know that your name could be blotted out of the Book of Life? Revelation 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. The one...

David, you may not think you're a calvinist, but you are IF you agree with that particular doctrine. But your post above has conflict. First you said this: This does not negate that God chooses us BEFORE we ever decided to come to Him. So if God chose us before we ever decided to come to Him...

You've posted a lot of scripture but I don't know why unless you say why. I believe the discussion with @Lambano is referring to the Ordo Salutis. What comes first Belief or Salvation Will reply to him later on.

So now we go by feelings that we feel instead of what the bible teaches? One of the first things I learned when becoming a Christian is that we go by the promises of God... NOW HOW WE FEEL about something or other. Some born again persons experience a lot of feelings... some none. So is the...

If something is inconsistent with God.... (your words) and we SUPPORT it.... is this a sin?

I don't believe this is correct Lambano. Calvinists do not know the means by which God chooses persons. They will state this over and over and appeal to mystery. They say that God chooses persons based on His own good pleasure. The final thing I want to note is found in Ephesians 1:5. We are...

No Ronald. This is NOT what sovereignty is. Sovereignty means the power that God has to rule over humanity as He sees fit, and how He does this. God is in control of everything... nothing happens without God ALLOWING it to happen. Every Christian believes God is sovereign - not just the...

I think you need to read the entire OP and also post no. 9...

Good. Great post. Election/predestination is in the bible.... but it's always for HOW or for PURPOSE. Never for WHO.... God desires that all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:3-4 3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge...

Yes. Your last line is correct AND for no reason at all ! The entire point of the gospel is to make mean aware of God and HOW to become saved. What exactly do calvinists believe the Apostles were sent out to preach: " We're here and we're going to preach just like Jesus said we should...

You know amigo, I think I liked atheism better. At least those persons have some character and some morals. This new thing now - which has come about BECAUSE OF the atheists... is much worse. Not only is God taken out of everything because this new thing (let's call it woke theology) is atheist...

Happily, what the Pope has stated a few times was just comments and not in the authority of the Pope, or ex-cathedra as it's called. However, he does have authority and even bishops and priests have been divided over his comments. It's my hope that the next Pope will be in keeping with...

Great advice. I forgot about the blessing option at Communion.

I'm thinking of quitting posting. Started out for the fellowship many years ago... But I don't see any anymore. I see too much bad doctrine and divisiveness. Not what Jesus wanted. : (