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I don't bother with arguments - just present Scripture with reason and passion.

I stand by my statement. Scripture says clearly that when faced with extreme deception they are not deceived.

Of course but the Scripture that triggered this exchange referred to the Very Elect not being deceived by false signs and wonders.

Are you making a general statement or referring to a particular members post ?

Remember that the Elect will not be tempted to follow a false Christ regardless of signs.

There is no such thing as partly chosen. An invite to the marriage supper is not enough.

Some churches claim to be doing that today. When all mankind sees the two witnesses in action, the hour is very late. In the parable the Wheat are the saved. Not so - it is a fact that tares can be in church leadership. My case seems to be an exception - I was BHS in a church that didn't...

absolutely not. The study of Scripture alone does not guarantee salvation. Because discernment operates when we are in mutual submission. It absolutely is And the very elect will not be deceived because they are linked into healthy fellowship.

The elect know that it is only by grace they remain free from deception.

I replied to these 4 points on the other thread...

1. Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Clearly it is not possible. 2. The institutional church includes Wheat and Tares. The real Body of Christ is the 'invisible elect' God's...

Two different definitions of Church... The very elect can not be deceived. The visible church is in disarray like the disciples were before the resurrection. This did not inhibit His perfect plan.

Yes - no individual or church have everything right but this does not inhibit God's perfect plan. Most churches preserve some truth's better than others. I was dramatically called back to ministry in the church after 7 years away and delivered from rejection and cynicism. I see Him at work on...

Yes - the obvious is the Status Quo because God has not abandoned the Church to deception.

Are you serious ??? I have never encountered such weird train of thought in response to Scripture that dodges the obvious..

It simply is the case... The Holy Spirit brings conviction to the whole world as John 16 clearly says...

John 16 The Work of the Holy Spirit “I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7...

An underlying issue is the definition of Love. First it is a nonsense to suggest that to emulate God is always loving. He Himself said Vengeance is Mine (not ours) So to take vengeance is not un-loving to Him but is for us. Second notice the definition of love that we are to follow (not Him)...

Sad would be accurate...

Universalism is gaining popularity and a pivotal verse is John 12:32. ESV And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself. Can folks suggest what was meant by John in this verse please. My thoughts are that He was prophesied to be the ultimate stumbling stone - one...