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  1. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    I think it is important to note that simply because something is "spiritual" does not mean it also cannot be literal. I mean, spiritual things are real....even more real than physical things. Also, just because a number may be symbolic doesn't also mean that it isn't something real and...
  2. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    I think it is important to also understand that Ecclesiates is a book of exploratory perceptions from one "under the sun." The entire book is a series of false presumptions about life that the author explored and discovered to be false. Perceieving life "under the sun" led to all kinds of...
  3. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    Keras, I agree with one part of your statement. I agree that we are called to endure in our faith. As Oz mentioned, "believes" is a present participle and indicates this to be something ongoing (not a momentary assent to some fact about Jesus or momentary trust). However, I also agree with...
  4. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. I only came off as strong as I did because you claimed Amillenialists guilty of heresy and implied your view to be "plain sense" and indicated those who disagree as obstinate to what is "plain." My point was simply to show you that your view is not plain...
  5. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    You told me what you think Jesus meant by stopping the reading where he did. I believe this is an argument from silence. Maybe that was the end of the reading for the day. Maybe Jesus wanted to focus on his role of healing and proclaiming the Gospel (the context of this reading is an issue...
  6. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    Why is the impetus on me to prove what Jesus "meant" by not quoting an entire passage? I think the one making an assertion by omission is the one who has to prove their point. My point is simply that you are making assumptions about what Jesus didn't say. I am making no such assumptions...
  7. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    Well, again, I think you are reading into the text. Jesus often did not quote entire passages he was referring to...which didn't always mean he wasn't fulfilling the entire passage. Jesus quoted to the Pharisees that they would see the Son of Man coming on the clouds...he left off the part...
  8. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    Copperhead, I am at a loss here. When did I ever reference Ezekiel, or when did you "counter" my response to your comment about Zech 13:7-9 or Hosea 6:2? You seem to be jumping from text to text and I am simply trying to understand your hermeneutical approach to a text such as Zech 13:7. In...
  9. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    Yes, you quoted those verses, but I am asking how I am applying them out of context. Matthew and Mark are the ones who suggested that they refer to the crucifixion of Jesus, not me. Again, I am asking you if you feel they were in error for quoting those in reference to the betrayal and...
  10. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    Copperhead, I dont think you have read my comments very carefully. First, I have done nothing with Hosea 5:15. I simply quoted Matthew and Mark who referred to it in reference to the crucifixion of Jesus. Thus, it was they who cited this verse as being fulfilled in Jesus' crucifixion, not me...
  11. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    Perhaps a better word for what you are looking for is "allegorizing." Certainly the Bible is filled with spiritual fulfillments of physical foreshadows. The entire book of Hebrews pretty much focuses on this alone. I agree that most of what Revelation speaks of has been mentioned in the OT...
  12. Wormwood

    No scripture supports the Rapture

    Copperhead, I appreciate your approach to debate on these issues. However, I have to disagree with your hermeneutics. 1. What do you mean when you talk about someone "spiritualizing" the meaning of Scripture? Don't we see this continually throughout the NT? Doesn't Paul refer to Jesus as...
  13. Wormwood

    THE QUESTION NO ONE WANTS TO ASK

    I don't think I agree with much you wrote here. First, I don't know what churches you have attended, but my experience is not that pastors think they are better than others. Generally, they have a lot of responsibility and not a lot of authority. Most THINK the pastor has all the authority...
  14. Wormwood

    THE QUESTION NO ONE WANTS TO ASK

    Well I guess that depends on your ecclesiology. Personally, I think the term "pastor" is appropriate for the qualifications for "overseers" listed in 1 Tim. 3. The term "pastor" indicates one who is a shepherd or provides spiritual oversight for the flock of God. In my view, there are...
  15. Wormwood

    Can We Honor Jesus Christ Through His Mother Mary? a debate

    Brothers and sisters, we all love Jesus here. Who is any of us to cast judgment on the other? If you are convinced in your own mind that your worship is honorable to Jesus Christ and you believe you trust him alone for your salvation then you are acting in faith. Let us all give one another...
  16. Wormwood

    The Sin of the Consumption of Blood

    “Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every...
  17. Wormwood

    The Sin of the Consumption of Blood

    I think it is a mistake here to read these restrictions in Acts 15 as a new sort of Christian "Law." Rather, these were expectations of Gentiles who were entering the church. What is missed by our culture today is how radical these words are. Most Jews would be absolutely outraged at the idea...
  18. Wormwood

    Why water into wine?

    Yes, and it is very possible that I could be mistaken on it. It certainly has always been the most puzzling of the cited miracles in John's Gospel for me. However, this would not be the only time John records a miracle of Jesus that was not very public in nature and yet it draws overarching...
  19. Wormwood

    Why water into wine?

    I believe in the great importance of baptism, but I don't think this passage has a flattering view of water. Thus, I don't think it is indicating water as a rite of passage to receive wine (although I agree other passages speak of the great importance of baptism). Here are a few of my thoughts...
  20. Wormwood

    Why water into wine?

    Perhaps we should get back to the topic of "Why water into wine?" Let's try to keep this from turning into another Protestant vs. Catholic dialogue. There are plenty of those forums on here if that is the discussion you would like to have. I'm curious as to the "why" with the water into wine...