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ATP, I dont think I disagree with anything you wrote (although I am sure I would disagree with the direction you are heading with those comments). FHII, I do not see salvation as a single, solitary choice. It begins with a choice, yes (and some Arminians would argue that even that first...

According to Paul, God's grace allows us to choose. It does not strip us of our choice and freedom. Rather, it gives us freedom from bondage to be married to another. We are not saved by our works, but our works are reflective of our choice to believe or disbelieve. Without grace, there is...

mjhealth, This is only indicative of your own preconceptions and misunderstandings of the non-osas position. This is nothing more than a straw-man. There are brilliant non-osas people out there (and osas people) and posts like this are just unfair characterizations that certainly do not...

justaname, Thanks for your reply. Sorry, this is a really busy day for me. I will try to respond in a few hours. I would just like to say that when I use the term "faith" I am implying a genuine faith in the essentials of the Gospel. I do not mean misplaced faith, faith in false gods, etc...

justaname, Thanks for your response. I apologize if I am not as clear as I should be. I will try to explain what I mean a little better... "Saving faith" is a notion that was born out of the Calvinistic concept that God grants some faith because He has predetermined their salvation by His...

justaname, I apologize if I misrepresented your position. Based on your previous arguments, it appeared to me that your understanding of election and so forth was portraying those ideas that are common with 5-point Calvinism. Again, I apologize if this is not your position. As for 1 Cor...

FHII and justaname, I must say that I agree with Baard and StanJ on this one. First, your argument is (as I understand them...perhaps I am wrong on your assessments) that the "if" statements in these passages do indeed warn us about the importance of holding fast to the Gospel, but those who...

I'm late to the party here, but reading back, I am not sure what the big deal is about whether or not Paul visibly saw Jesus or not (clearly the Apostle John did). As for OSAS, IMO, God calls all people but only those who respond in faith are the ones who hear the call. They are encouraged...

I just dont understand why the non-free will proponents argue their point. Clearly I was predestined to disagree with them (according to their position). Romans 9 actually teaches the opposite of pre-determining individuals for salvation. The point is that God has the sovereignty to accept...

The title of this topic is similar to saying, "Too much time learning to read, not enough time studying books." Scripture warns that you "watch your life and doctrine closely, if you do you will save both yourself and your hearers." Doctrine is simply a set of accepted beliefs. You cannot...

ATP, Almost every verse you are quoting uses a present participle for "believe." Thus, "believe" is not a past tense act, but a present, ongoing act. If someone ceases to believe, then none of those verses apply to them because of the present tense participles. I think those verses only...

Well, I am going to bow out of this discussion. There doesnt seem to be any openness to hearing one another here and proof-texting with random verses from all over the Bible without regard to context makes discussions like these impossible to reason through. The good news is that we are all...

I was just explaining my understanding of the term "rapture." It means different things to different people. Biblically, I find no justification for a secret rapture. I was not insinuating you did. I dont think those you are debating with would deny that Jesus is going to return and "snatch...

Marcus, Did you even read my post? I said I don't see any verse in the Bible that teaches a secret rapture. Also, Rev. 1:9 makes it clear that the "tribulation" is not a future event. Christians have been suffering tribulation for 2000 years and will continue to do so until Christ returns.

I think its important to define "rapture" in this context. If you are defining "rapture" as a sudden disappearance of the church while all the unbelievers of the world are left behind for a period of Tribulation, then that is quite different from a "rapture" concept that simply teaches that...

In my estimation, the church is the bride of Christ. I think its wrong to try to stretch imagery and metaphor and make them substantive of the Church. Just because Jesus declares the disciples, "friends of the bridegroom" does not mean that a different illustration elsewhere cannot be used to...

ewq, The person of Jesus Christ is central to what it means to have faith "in his name." The "antichrists" in 1 John were those who were twisting who Jesus was. John makes it very clear that if one does not accept the truth of the Jesus they walked with and personally knew, not only do they...

Oz, biblically, and looking at early church history, there was no such thing as a Christian who had not been baptized. Obviously, because of all of the confusion about this subject today, it is a different situation. Personally, I believe that a person who is ignorant of the biblical teaching...

Oz, Again, I find the notion of making a convert as a separate act from making a disciple to be quite unsubstantiated in Scripture. There is simply no indication anywhere that there is a process for disciple-making and a separate process for making converts. The whole purpose of "baptizing in...

Oz, Thanks for responding. I disagree that baptism is part of the "learning process" or that being a disciple is somehow different from becoming a convert. I dont think the early church separated discipleship from salvation as we do today. Can you be a convert and not be a disciple? There...