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Vanilla.

Odd. None I own disagrees with him. It is interesting that some translate the word as "punish" but not all (I think the NASB more accurate). That said, I think we both know that this appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. I have told you what I believe and why. You are more than welcome to...

Look again at my explanation (and Scripture) Hebrews 5:8-10 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, being designated by God as a high priest according to...

And I do not believe your explanation is correct (just as you do not believe mine is correct).

And I have explained that due to context it does not mean punishment. We disagree about the context, David. I still do not see your reasoning (by context), but I believe you do. And that is fine. I am not arguing against your view here but telling you what I believe because that is what @Steve...

There are not dozens saying he is wrong. And I am not saying he is the definitive expert (or that he is not). Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. I am saying that the claim I must explain why I reject "punishment" when some have interpreted the word to mean punishment 6% of its usage in...

Like I said, I disagree but will compromise as either way the choice needs to be explained as it is not the "normal" use of the word. If it means "punishment" 3 times out of 50 then it does not mean punishment 94% of the times it is used. Even here my argument is not that I am correct because it...

I need to make a clarification @Steve Owen and @David Taylor. I had said musar can mean punishment but mean that as concession. The reason is in those cases it is not in the context of divine punishment but an earthly king punishing Israel by defeating them. I am not sure this constitutes...

"punish" is in the range of possibilities as it refers to a type of punishment twice. But 96% of the time it points to something else (normally instruction/ discipline). So you are right that we both need to explain our choice of meanings. The verse does not speak of Christ learning...

I agree that a propitiation is a sacrifice that turns away wrath. I also believe the definition provided by the English dictionary is correct. 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 For people everywhere report how you welcomed us and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to...

Propitiation is "the act of gaining or regaining the favor or goodwill of someone or something". In Christ there is no condemnation. He is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

It just adds to the reasoning. Since the word means does not mean punishment 96% of the times it is used, I think it is reasonable to consider it may not mean punishment here while allowing for that definition as a possibility. The reason I choose this definition is that I believe it connected...

I believe that Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world. This points to Christ (Christ's identity). He is this Propitiation. Here I agree with Justin Martyr's use of the "human family". I view our sins being laid upon Christ as speaking of the sins of mankind (as @charity...

I am a Baptist (Southern Baptist by denomination). I've never been a member of another denomination.

This is an excellent explanation (much more articulate than I could manage).

Good question, Steve. This is essentially what Nicodemus asked in John 3. I believe that it is equally an abomination to God to acquit the guilty and to condemn the righteous. I believe man must die to sin, be crucified with Christ (share in His death and resurrection). In other words, I...

We have to be very careful when we start relying on English dictionaries and specific translations. We still get the same disagreement (one of choosing a meaning). The word in the NASB is chastening (which I believe is a good choice for the Hebrew word), and that can but does not necessarily...

I appreciate Recapitulation theory as well. This is a very old theory (associated with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus) and has merit. It has a lot in common with my view.

A penalty can be the result of a punishment (Webster's affirms that as well). But it does not necessitate that definition (neither does the Oxford Dictionary). The definition I provided was verbatim (as was yours). ;) I think when we choose meanings of words we need to explain why (not just...

But Webster's dictionary does not. :) Regardless, when dealing with other people we have to learn how they define the words. I define "punishment" as imposing a penalty in retribution for an offensive and "penalty" as disadvantage, loss, or hardship due to some action (Webster's dictionary)...