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:D You didn't misspell. I was just saying that I love me a buffet. :p

I've enjoyed our dialogue. Hebrews 5:8-10 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

No. Not "instead" of us but "for" us. Penal Substitution Theory substitutes "instead" for the word "for".

God was reconciling the world to Himself, no longer counting man's sins against them. You have to keep in mind that we - not our sins - were purchased with the precious blood of Christ.

Not a punishment. Penal Substitution Theory views God as pouring His wrath on Christ. Scripture presents God as chastening (disciplining) His children who are never objects of wrath. There is absolutely nothing biblical about Penal Substitution Theory.

I do love me a good buffet. :)

This is a faulty example. We are not talking about punishing the sinner (the sinner dies to sin and is born again) but punishing an action. Also, yoy are assuming retributive justice. You punch me in the nose. I want to forgive you. Who do I have to punch instead of punching you?

Sin (sinful actions) cannot be punished. Sinners can be punished. Scrioture teaches that sins are manifestations (fruits) of ones sinfulness. Do you believe God has to punish "sinful actions" ot that God's judgment is against sinners (wicked people)? Regardless, those saved are no longer...

I agree you would not vilify God to say He punished Christ because both the Father and Son are God. The problem is Scripture does not affirm that God punished Christ instead of punishing us so those who hold the Theory need to at least address how they come up with the idea.

I understand but I do not think it a problem because Scripture actually says it for us. Acts 2:23-24 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, d put him to death by nailing him to the cross. But God raised him from the...

I agree. It is Penal Substitution Theory I reject. But more than that I believe it is up to those who hold the Theory to justify the assumption (how they "connect the dots".

I agree that Christ died a physical death, and I agree we are to die to the flesh and will experience a physical death as well. And, of course, this us justice satisfied as we must be born again and made new creations in Christ rather than being justified in the flesh.

I think it is an important distinction. I say this for a couple of reasons. First, Scripture presents a relationship between God and Christ. This relationship embodies the utter holiness and love of God not only as the Father to His Son but also as Creator God to man. We can not expect God...

I agree that the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. I also agree that he who believes on the Son will see life, and he who does not will not but the wrath of God abides on him. It is, in fact, through Christ that we escape the wrath to come...

Why do you believe the Father poured His wrath out on His Son? You claim it is the context, Steve. And I do not doubt you believe it is the context. But why do you see it this way when Scripture itself does not provide that context?

Why do you believe the cross was God pouring out His wrath on Christ?

I am not going to discuss this with @Steve Owen as I believe it fruitless. The word translated "chastisement" is used 50 times. Most of the time it refers to discipline and instruction. 2 times it means punishment (not here). The only reason Steve interprets it as "punishment" here is his...

I know it looks like wrath to you - that's my point. musar means instruction 20 times, discipline 18 times, and punishment twice. Why do you believe it means "punishment" in this case? Why would God commit what Scripture states is an abomination by punishing Christ? While you are at it, why...

Scripture does not say the "we" (the "wicked men" who crucified Christ) were not right. In fact, the language suggests otherwise ("but He was wounded for our transgressions"). That is Scripture. BUT that is Steve's idea. Scripture speaks of God chastisement as a discipline (not a punishment)...