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For example, There are multiple passages in the OT where Gods descends from heaven on the clouds in judgement of nations or enemies. I’ve already acknowledged the day of the Lord is described as the coming of Christ and gathering in vs 1. It says the end is not yet. Nowhere does it say the...

Paul frames the subject in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 as “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto him.” The issue is that the Thessalonians feared “the day of the Lord has come” (2:2). Paul’s response is not: “You would already know if Christ had literally appeared in the...

all is forgiven. Jesus said this generation will not pass away until ALL THESE THINGS occur. “All these things” appear to include the son of man coming on the clouds and the gathering of the elect. If Jesus said it, then I believe it.

What’s your question about this verse?

Which part are you referring to?

I’m not sure what you are talking about out. The adverb “as if” modifies the source of deception - letter, spirit, spoken word. It does not modify the day of the Lord. “Don’t be deceived by a spirit, spoken word, or letter “as if from us”, alleging that the day of the Lord has already...

Bummer, I was hoping for a counter as to why my response was wrong or missing something. All good if you wish to discontinue the discussion.

I agree it’s my opinion - based on the fact that Paul corrects a deception that it might already have occurred. If he had corrected the nature of it, then I would have a different opinion. My argument is not that Paul should have said something different simply because I would have preferred...

Your premise is wrong. 1.) contextually, Paul defines the day of the Lord in vs 1 - the coming of Christ and gathering. Therefore, Paul stated do not be shaken in mind that the day of the Lord ( WHICH HE DEFINED AS THE COMING OF CHRIST AND THE GATHERING) has already happened. 2.)...

Paul’s sequence proved a cosmic and global event hadn’t Happened yet? They could be deceived a global cosmic event already Happened because they were still suffering? I honestly have no idea what you are arguing here. It doesn’t make any logical sense.

Honestly, your argument doesn’t really make any sense nor address the main overall issue. Paul is NOT solely correcting the prophetic sequence, he’s providing a prophetic sequence to prove “something” has not yet occurred. But what that “something” is, is the very hinge on what the prophetic...

Edit: I should add that 2 Thessalonians is literally about correcting a deception that the day of the Lord already occurred, contrary to what you argued. If the day of the Lord was generally understood as a cosmic global event, then correcting the Thessalonians understanding of sequence and...

Paul never corrects the Thessalonians’ understanding of what the day of the Lord is. Therefore, any arguments about them misunderstanding the nature of the day are not grounded in Paul’s actual response, and are irrelevant. The whole premise is not to be deceived that it already happened, not...

My argument wasn’t that they could be fooled into the thinking that a cosmic global event already occurred. My argument is that it doesn’t make logical sense that someone could be fooled into believing they missed the day of the Lord, IF it was generally understood as a global cosmic event...

I’ll start with point 1. How could the Thessalonians be deceived that a global cosmic event had already come?

Apparently you didn’t read the post, which addresses vs 1. If vs 1 is meant to be global, like meteorite destroying the entire planet, Paul’s prerequisites for not being deceived that it already happened don’t make any sense. However, if vs 1 is not meant to be global, like a meteorite only...

You didn’t really address the hypothetical as presented by Paul in a way that makes sense, and then presented a counter argument to preterism, In a similar manner that I presented. So I was addressing that counter argument - ie, why didn’t Paul mention a standing temple? Well he did mention a...

If both Paul and the Thessalonians understood the “Day of the Lord” as a clearly recognizable, cosmic, global event, then Second Epistle to the Thessalonians is a strangely indirect way to reassure them they haven’t missed it. Why not just provide the obvious in this hypothetical- “look around...

I would agree that There is not enough surrounding context, in 2 Thessalonians 2, to determine if Paul is talking about a physical temple. BUT I would also add there is not enough context, in 2 Thessalonians 2, to determine if Paul is NOT talking about the physical temple.

no, the issue is this: 1.) if the coming is a literal bodily descension, and the resurrection is literally reanimated dead bodies flying up into the air, and the earth getting a literal new make over, after fire and fury then.. 2.) why would the Thessalonians be worrying about it happening...