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I’ve always wondered this. Why does Paul explain it hasn’t happened yet by providing 2 other ambiguous events that must first occur, instead of the most obvious explanation, if in fact it’s to be understood in the way @Spiritual Israelite understands it. If anytime I say the OD was fulfilled...

Interesting, so then according to this interpretation, are we currently in the time, times, and half a time?

There is definitely not. There is no other NT passage that states a man of sin, opposing God, claiming to be God, will sit in a physical or spiritual temple. Which is unfortunate. There is Daniel 11:31-36, which has the physical temple being desolated by a king who opposes God and exalts...

What determines when two passages are describing the same eschatological event and when they are not? A.) You argue the coming of Christ in Paul’s letters = the coming of Christ in the OD B.) You have previously argued the ends of the ages in Paul’s letter ≠ end of the age in the OD. C.)...

Jesus said there would be. Matthew 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. I think it’s likely Paul is talking about the same thing in 1 and 2 Thessalonians. But, I think the bigger question is Paul, in 1 and 2 Thessalonians, talking...

If Paul is not talking about anything of the OD in 2 Thessalonians 2, then I can likely agree.

Didn’t the Byzantine empire = eastern Roman Empire or no? Sorry you’ll have to forgive. The history of the messy split of the Roman Empire is not my strong suit.

2 Thessalonians 2 was written prior to 70ad, so I disagree it’s not possible he was talking about physical temple. As to “symbolic seat of divinity”, you are probably right on that. BDAG only lists 2 Thessalonians 2:4 under physical temple and not an idiom for a generic seat of divinity.

I never said it’s God’s fault. I think it’s more like putting framework first. If you are convinced your framework is the correct one, you’ll negotiate with the text in one way or another. Right, Jesus revealed the OT scriptures were about Him and his kingdom and his gospel - the Spirit...

I lean toward physical temple in Jerusalem, which is possible. But I think another viable option, which could be stronger now that I think about it, is that it could be idiomatic - sits in the temple of god - basically a symbolic seat of divinity (not literal physical temple nor the church)

The papacy uprooted these kingdoms? I thought these were defeated by the Byzantine empire?

I didn’t say I don’t think I need the Spirits help. That’s your either misunderstanding or misrepresentation of my position. I’m saying the purpose of the Spirit isn’t to give us insight into ambiguous NT teachings that have no commentary nor explanation by the author. If the Spirits purpose was...

Who did papal Rome subdue?

I’m saying “spiritual discernment” doesn’t give you the answers as to what Paul was talking about in 2 Thessalonians 2. Instead, your framework more likely does. If spiritual discernment gave us the answers, we’d likely all be on the same page. I’m saying the purpose of spiritual discernment...

I’ll admit im not totally familiar with dates. When did imperial Rome fall and when did papal Rome rise ?

I think it means turning the other cheek, understanding the kingdom is not of this world, loving your enemies, feeding the poor, healing the sick, clothing the naked, fruits of the spirit, etc… basically things contrary to the carnal man. I don’t believe it means revealing secret timelines or...

I would argue it doesn’t enable you to understand the words written. The Bible was written in Greek and Hebrew, and it took many linguistics experts and scholars to get the Bible to where it is today. Can you point to any figure, who had zero background in Hebrew or Greek that was able to help...

We have a different understanding as to what “spiritual discernment” means. as I’ve explained in the past - I don’t think it has to do with God magically giving someone insight into unknown conversations 2000 years ago. But this does have me thinking- if the private convo with the Thessalonians...

There are hundreds of different interpretations on this site alone. Whose “spiritual discernment” is the right one? Spiritual discernment doesn’t mean you automatically get to ignore grammar and claim you know what Paul talked about in secret meetings outside of the letters. The Greek is...

Correct. It doesn’t grammatically say lawlessness is restrained. I would argue the “revealing” of the man of sin is what is restrained, due to that when the restrainer is taken out of the way, the man of sin is revealed.