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  1. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    No sir, you cited Peter. Here is what you posted in post #215 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish...
  2. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    It does reflect my stance, but that doesn't mean I'm not opened to debate with others or opened minded. We can disagree but you are still a sister or brother in Christ to me. The only way we learn is to have discourse and talk about these things. I used to be Pre-Trib. There is a reason I am no...
  3. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Yes, I agree with the summary you posted of 1 Peter 1:18-19. You earlier posted: For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Conversation: KJV: conversation NASB: citizenship From politeuomai; a community, i.e. (abstractly) citizenship...
  4. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    God's wrath is not tribulation. Don't take my word for it, do a Koine greek word search between the 2. Thlipsis does not equal Ogre or Thumos. Thlipsis, which is tribulation is never God's wrath anywhere in the Bible or outside texts. Everytime thlipsis is used, we endure it. God's wrath is...
  5. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Condemnation is a final judgment before a judge which when a sentence is passed, there’s no more chance for the offender to walk away. That is not tribulation. In Revelations context, God gives people chances up to the door shutting in Rev 15. Therefore, none of that is condemnation. That falls...
  6. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Because I asked a question? You posted a verse that said Christ will receive us and we go where he goes. So, where is He going and what did he prepare for us? Im asking you so that I may understand your thoughts. How is that determination to cause you to stumble? That’s awful to say that. At the...
  7. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Im not sure why you say that. I told you, some translations have the word as conversation. That’s found in the KJV as an example. I also explained the writer in its context was talking about the difference between believers and others.
  8. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    This is a better one. Where is Christ going when he receives us to Him? Specifically, what is he going to prepare for us and where will it be?
  9. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Out citizenship, not our home. Some translate it as conversation in Heaven. It demonstrates the government and laws which we abide by being His. It's an identifier that sets us apart from the world. He is contrasting "them" from "us". He is not saying our literal home is in Heaven, the throne of...
  10. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Can you provide scripture that says our home will be in Heaven and not on the New restored Earth?
  11. No Pre-TB

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    There is plenty of scripture. Paul quotes it and Christ says it.
  12. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    So the Great Commision is for the Jews? Got it. But there is a problem there, see the Gospels are great because they back one another. In Mark 13, speaking of the same discourse as Matthew 24, Christ says what I say to you I say to ALL. So its not for the Jews, its for everyone. 37And what I...
  13. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    There is no such thing. We are all one in Christ. That's like saying everyone else is Gentile believers. The wall of partition is broken. Once you come to Christ, you are a believer. Blood doesnt matter. Culture doesnt matter. If you want scripture on this, I can provide it. Let me know
  14. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Regarding the resurrection: Does a cry, a shout and a trumpet sound like a secret? And does this look like a secret? And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a...
  15. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    You didnt ask me what the rapture is. You asked me, What is your understanding of the meaning of "the coming of the Lord?" I answered it. If you want to talk about the harpazo, that's a different question.
  16. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    The parousia of the King. Christ return.
  17. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    I understand the harpazo, which is such a minor thing in scripture compared to the resurrection. As I'm sure you are aware, most saints will rise at the resurrection. Only a remnant that survive until the coming of our Lord will be harpazo'd. The scripture I provided was the substance and it is...
  18. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Doesn't look Pre-Trib to me. Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy...
  19. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    I agree, Christ comes back one time for the dead and the living remnant. The dead rise first, they dont rise with the living. There is an order to things.
  20. No Pre-TB

    Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

    Yes it can, but never a physical departure. Its only used twice in scripture and in Acts its not a physical departure. Its used a few times outside the Bible in the Greek and everytime its not physical either. The rapture cannot happen till the rapture happens first.....:Ohz