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Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. Revelation 12:11 And they...

It says we will rise in the air to be with Him, and Jesus said that we would be where He is, and obviously that is in heaven. No possible debate Guess where Jesus is? Hebrews 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." Hebrews 12:7 It is for...

Your lack of clarity is the only problem. You cited two churches and talked about the men as if they were one and the same. Be honest

No it is God gathering His people. The little remnant that gets saved of Israel in the end is just a portion of His people. Israel is included in the events of the end, but does not have an exclusive on them, sorry. They mostly get judged as usual. Only AFTER they get saved in the end. After...

We will be where He is. If you claim He is on earth again already you have a problem Says you. But He is in the air and so are we then. The city He prepared for us, in not on earth now. Really Yes, it says we are with Him when we die. No possibility. You are way over at the end of the 1000...

The time of wrath is well marked in the bible as is the last years. We don't really need you to see it. That is when He returns to earth after the tribulation That is not the Rapture. Jesus has come back to earth by then. GONG! The bible does say we go to be with Him when we die. It also...

What has that got to do with people taken and left at the rapture?? Of course the mark is something that shows people have rejected Jesus. That is supposed to relate to what here? Chapter and verse!? Mat 24 you thought was pre tribulation? Why would you say that?

Verse? If they were saved and this was the time of the rapture, they would miss out Try to be clear. The virgin parable seems to be at the Rapture. Not sure waht point you are trying to make with Mat 24

Never met a man who was a church actually. Never met a man who was a bank either.

News to me, that the other poster was advocating a pre wrath rapture. Verse? Yes, the saints of the tribulation left alive will be gathered at the end of the tribulation when Jesus comes back to earth. The believers who were raptured years before, of course, will be returning with Jesus.

Perhaps you are talking about the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns? That depends what "it" is. Verse? Why not? Says who? Maybe you do that No, they had no oil why would we think they were saved? Says who?

That makes no sense. The other parts of the men? What other parts do men have? Perhaps you mean in the description of the men as olive trees and candlesticks. That reminds us of Zech Zechariah 4:3, Zechariah 4:11, Zechariah 4:14 We do know they are two men. There is no mention of church at all...

Except the two people (witnesses) are not churches they are men. 2 men. So forget telling anyone they are wrong.

? You thought those seven churches were here at the end of the great tribulation? It says to the churches which ARE in....not 'will be one day far in the future' The seven here are seven churches. It is interesting how the two witnesses are also called candlesticks. A candle brings light, in...

No idea what you are talking about. Where does it say half of the saved are left behind? Ha Do not pretend that is 'in the bible' When you say "Those" are... what are you referring to? Those folks in the end who were killed for their faith were...what exactly?

Right, as in not saved by the 'church' but saved by Jesus The church started in Jesus' day and there is no church mentioned after the tribulation begins. Try to get over the hang up of thinking you need to stick a label that says church on all believers in all ages. Name any verse that says...

Says who? Verse? Jesus talked to a lot of people who were not in the church. That does not mean they are not in heaven or saved or saints etc. False logic. They are saved, yes. Not in the church. Saved by the blood does not mean member of the church, sorry. That is why you can not give us any...

That was the point, the church cannot be overcome. Jesus promised.

Weird off topic strawman again I do not engage in what if God was wrong and lying arguments. If the church cannot be the light to the world it was set up to be, and preach the gospel etc, then what good is it? God gave it the special promise of protection so it could. In the tribulation that...

Any and all persecutions of the church have never overcome it. Obviously.