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I meant there seems to be a continuity between "If you remain in My Word, you will prove you are truly My disciples", and this idea of "invalid/false belief", and "they went out from among us to prove they were never of us".

I was just surprised that true and false faith actually existed in Scripture at all.

No, I'm saying that this invalid faith seems not to result in God placing one into Christ where the eternal life is.

I'm wanting to zero in on "true and false faith".

1. As mentioned in my preface, I don't take James 2 as referring to true and false faith. 2. I see 1 Jn 2 as having other potential interpretations--therefore (and bc I hadn't seen "false faith" proven as even existing through Scripture), in times past, I was hesitant to interpret it in that...

They could not "abide" Christ's Word. Therefore, they didn't really believe in the actual Christ--they were titillated that this could be the one they had waited for, that would do the things they had expected, carnal opinions and hopes about what Messiah would be (eg, "Our fathers ate manna...

Clarification : don't want to discuss this topic.

They "believed"... yet, they "believed" in an invalid way... lending itself to the doctrine that "they went out to prove they were never of us".

The intent was to discuss the fact that the idea that faith can be valid faith or invalid faith (true or false)--which, to me, had never been proven Scripturally, but seemed to merely have been baselessly asserted--actually has Scriptural bases.

No, you're not tanking the thread, I'm just trying to readjust it.

Well, when you dismiss the other doctrines, yeah, how else am I to interpret what you're doing? Again, I failed to produce the kind of conversation I'd wanted here bc of the preface I included in the OP opening. Lol

I really wanted this thread to be about true and false faith in John's Gospel, not about justification by faith or by works. Sorry for their confusion. I've made two threads now that have failed to start the kind of conversatioms I've wanted.

Clarification: there are other justification doctrines in Scripture.

You're very keen on discussing this snippet, as if it represented the whole of doctrine on the subject. If only that were the case.

I don't know how to be any clearer. There is no right or wrong answer, because I'm not asserting that predestination is or is not anything--I'm simply asking users to share their opinions. I'm not going to be responding to this sort of reply from you again. What I'm asking for is not unclear...

I'm not "proving" anything, I'm just reviewing others' opinions.

So, basically, the Biblical doctrine of predestination doesn't affect, isn't brought to bear upon, your life, either one way or the other?

This is the sort of answer I was looking for in this discussion.

Predestination is in the Bible. I'm only asking WHAT YOU THINK IT MEANS, not asking that you agree with Calvin on its interpretation.

Whatever "The Word says" is the "teaching" or "doctrine". Yeah, I'm aware of this doctrine, but I'm also aware of other justification doctrines.