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OK I'm asking what each user thinks predestination is, and how your view of predestination is brought to bear upon, shapes, your daily life (if at all). If a doctrine doesn't shape our daily lives, do we really believe it?

Just a quick tangent (don't want this to take the discussion over): this calls to mind the Israelites who, during their wilderness wanderings, wanted to go back to Egypt.

I renamed the thread so it better reflects the conversation I was wanting to have. Apologies for the confusion the previous naming had caused.

Yeah, thanks to various "Ligonier" teachers, I'm aware of this justification doctrine. I wonder if you're aware of the justifications taught in Romans 2:6-16 (eschatological), or in 14:5,23 (moment to moment)? Or the fact that James says you're not justified by faith alone but by both having...

I renamed the thread. It should readjust the conversation.

I really wanted this discussion to revolve around predestination--how people of differing persuasions define the Biblical concept, and what it means for how Christians live their lives. I probably misnamed the thread. Lol How does predestination shape your day to day walk?

I really don't want to get into a debate/discussion on OSAS, just on the definitions (and implications of those definitions) of "predestination".

I really don't want to get into a debate/discussion on OSAS, just on the definitions (and implications of those definitions) of predestination

"Wow." You're ignored!

You can dish it, but you can't take it. You complained when I showed you the conclusions I believed your view would of necessity be leading to, yet you did the same here and saw no issue with it.

I don't know if you have observed, as I have, that there is no amount of evidence you can show "Torah Observant" Christians that will ever convince them that they don't know what they're talking about (they view and worship themselves as "masters of Scripture", so they will suffer nothing to...

If so, who is "Sodom"? It says Jerusalem did so many abominations that they made "Sodom, your younger sister, south of you" appear righteous. Who is "Sodom", "south" of Jerusalem, if not Sodom itself?

Thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters — That is, her lesser towns. “Samaria is called the elder, or greater sister, because it was a much larger city and kingdom, greater for power, riches, and numbers of people, and more nearly allied to Judah. And Sodom is called the younger...

LOL It's not really where I wanted the discussion to go (I moreso wanted to discuss "true" and "false" faith as presented in John's Gospel), plus it seems like you're very confused (maybe you have diabetes, and your blood sugar spikes are ruining your concentration), so I'll not go further into...

OK, so do you see why I was asking for clarification? LOL It's obvious that James is teaching that both the ongoing justification in the present and the eschatological justification (eg, Romans 2) are by both faith and completing faith by walking in faith, and that this is directed at a...

I made different points in the OP. I'm assuming we're referring only to the James 2 portion. So, you would say that James teaches "faith alone"--that James refers to "true" and "false" faith? To clarify, again, my OP says the opposite of that--that James teaches "faith and works" justifies...

I don't know if I'm wrong for asking you to clarify it for me, but could you clarify it for me--ie, by saying either "I was agreeing" or "I was disagreeing"?

So, you were agreeing?

So... were you agreeing with it, or were you disagreeing with it?

Well, my view on this issue is expressed in the OP. You can tell me whether you're agreeing or disagreeing--you're, ostensibly, "responding" to it, right? Is it clear, or should I clarify?