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So was the church right before or now? If any system can make such drastic changes....it cannot be trusted.

Difficuilt to reply to scripture I cannot see. However, the NT teaches that we are to do works. It's what Jesus taught. Not posting anymore scripture...must leave soon. Be happy mmd. Even if you're wrong. Funny. I was also raised in the same church. I love Jesus and Mary. I suppose we're all...

If we're sealed unto the day of redemption... WHY Are we asked not to grieve the Holy Spirit?

Well,,,they can't be all wrong. The NT teaches that the church you're attending (if this is where you're learning all this heresy) is a heretical church teaching heresy. You should wake up.

How could reformed theology be considered MAINLINE if IT NEVER EXISTED in the church? Do we all understand that the Christian Religion began 2 thousand years ago? Do we understand that if we accpet BRAND NEW ideas that came about after the year 1,500 it means every theologian before this time...

Augustine got the ball rolling. In the 5th century... NOT the Early church. He was gnostic for 10 years...I'm not getting into that. The EARLY CHURCH never taught OSAS. Please read the above again. The idea was PASTORAL NOT doctrinal. And... it was CONDITIONAL. As it should be. I guess...

I'd add to the above that OSAS was disseminated throughout the Protestant denomnations by John Darby in about 1820. He adapted the P of the S into mainline Protestantism... althoug, we do have to state, that mainline Christian denominations do NOT accept OSAS.... this also includes the...

Thanks for the name of this fallacy Wrangler.... I've been searching for it ! POST HOC FALLACY Right. In effect, the OSAS people are agreeing that we won't know if we're saved and if we've continued in our faith UNTIL the end.... making the case for NOSAS !

I'm afraid you'll have to connect the dots. Scripture must be posted if you want to discuss it. Not doing your work for you.

I have Jesus for my support. I have Paul for my support. You don't trust ANYONE. You trust your flawed theology. Proof that it is very flawed because there is one Body... not two. All the writers of the NT agreed with each other. JESUS: John 5:28-29 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is...

No. The fact that the seal, promise, is on God's end destroys YOUR position, not that of @doctrox . This just shows how much you actually misundestand scripture. 1. You should REALLY find out what the seal is. But no matter....let's remain ignorant of the facts. 2. God puts HIS SEAL on YOU...

1. Where does the NT teach, in any of scripture I post, that we are trusting in self for salvation? Even OT believers did not believe they were trusting in themselves but in God. 2. Why would anyone want to live in fear and bondage? Looks like you and Augustine and Luther have a lot in...

Thanks for proving that you do not believe what Jesus teaches. But you prefer to put words into His mouth. A dangerous practice. THIS is what Jesus stated: John 5:28-29 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come...

Agreed. So why post that when I say a teaching is heretical it means those that believe it are going to hell? Why post something I NEVER would say? Jesus will be doing the judging... NOT ME. Augustine taught heresy. Is he not in heaven? I certainly don't know. Depends. I'm happy to leave that...

In an open thread... anyone can join at any time.... it is not considered interfering. I'll bet you know this but were just enjoying the fun! :Broadly: I'd have to agree. But OSAS states that any one of those could be missing and a person will still be saved IF at one point in their life...

Yes- Always said this: You're a nice guy and most certainly are following Jesus... but... your theology is OFF THE RAILS. What do you make of all those warnings in the NT? All those IF's. I guess they're PRESCRIPTIVE. Oh. Descriptive. Sorry. GENUINE CHRISTIANS PSEUDO CHRISTIANS...

Why don't you stop listening to FALLIBLE MEN and read the NT?

That's because you do teach heresy. If you believe that doctrine saves MMD then you better make darn sure that you have your doctrine right. You sure are one confused dude. Have you become a gnostic? Not engaging in your tiraid against the very church that saved the NT writings for you. Oh...

And I'm so happy that you will now correct your statement about faith. I'll be looking out for you!

Jesus forgot to teach the other Apostles? John 3: 3,5 3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s...