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There appears to be a disagreement among you from my perspective (though SG gave lip service to agreement, he is actually saying something different).

I think he's talking about the doctrine of Calvinism, that it lends to this kind of "humble" thinking. Unconditional Election means that we are chosen for no apparent reason. If you understand that the Bible teaches that Christian believers are morally superior to unbelievers (cf. 2...

From my perspective, what you call "regeneration" I call the drawing of the Father of a person to Christ.

So you are saying that regeneration and the new birth are two separate things?

Completely beside the point. What matters is what scripture teaches; and it teaches that we are born again through faith in Jesus Christ. How then is it that you say that a man is born again before he puts his faith in Jesus Christ?

But he is born again through faith in Jesus, according to your words. So how is it that faith comes only after being born again?

If a man is born again through faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the Cross, how is it that you say that he is regenerated before that?

I think I must be being ignored...

I believe that 1 Corinthians 14:15 speaks to us adequately on the subject of whether the tongue-speaker understands what he is saying apart from interpretation.

Christians can't be demon-possessed. He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world.

My question that I asked in the other thread, that has not been answered, is, How is a man born again, if not through faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the Cross? This has to do with the order of things in salvation; because it seems to me that Romans 5:1-2 and Ephesians 2:8-9...

My question that I asked in the other thread, that has not been answered, is, How is a man born again, if not through faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the Cross? This has to do with the order of things in salvation; because it seems to me that Romans 5:1-2 and Ephesians 2:8-9...

I agree that human responsibility is not to be left out of our biblical understanding.

@Mjh29, I am interested in what you have to say about the OP.

There are also certain verses that, it could be said, are in refutation of some of the points of TULIP.

I'm not following....you appear to be speaking a different language. I have not been taught the same things that you have been taught...you are going to have to explain to me what you are trying to say by this, in your own words.

So how does that apply to what is written in the OP?

Also, the point is, that in Romans 8:30, justification is a result of predestination. So you cannot say that predestination is only unto being completely conformed to the image of Christ. It is also unto being initially declared righteous through faith in Jesus Christ (salvation).

I don't really have the time or resource to do that. My understanding of Calvinism will therefore remain based on my understanding of the acronym TULIP.

Actually the order is, predestinated, called, justified, glorified. And therefore being justified (initial salvation) is included as a benefit of predestination.