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Ironic that you have taken an erroneous position , while accusing us of the same thing you are doing. Pretrib rapture is what Jesus taught. I can quite handily defend his words. Take any one of the pretrib rapture verses and we can go toe to toe. First you need to know them. That is...

He does gather after the trib. We all know that. You have proved nothing. By leaving out the gathering before the flood, (hello....mat 24 's OTHER GATHERING ) you make yourself a DISTORTER of God's WORD. APOLOGIZE to heaven for misrepresenting the word of God Psssst..that is called lying. A...

Stop calling the bible fake and phony. You can not honestly defend a postrib rapture. You do not know the rapture verses. But just pretend Jesus did not know what he was doing in the pretrib rapture verses. You have never offered ANY evidence we are wrong. You just name call and post safe...

There are many doctrines destroyed and in the ditch by the bible. The Bible is a doctrine destroyer. True doctrine changes as error is pointed out. Have you ever, ever, ever, seen anyone here change their doctrine? If they never have ,That proves they are wrong

God is not going to tell only 4 or 5 people on the planet about the rapture. He has thousands of remnant believers that are intimate with Him and converse with Him. Leaders get full of themselves and think they are some bigger than life legends in their own times. And they are in their own...

QUOTE "There is no 7 year tribulation. Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood." Genesis 7 13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; 14 They, and every beast after his...

QUOTE "How can you possibly think the great tribulation and the wrath of God are the same" The seats in the stadium are not the stadium. The seats are PART OF it. The seven year blah blah. Tedious indeed.

Not even close. You 100% made that up. There are several components you guys are TOTALLY swiping off the table. All investigation will be futile once the omission dynamic is invoked.

Nope Once you spiritualize the literal, there will be no true investigation. Generally when the literal is spiritualized, there is a erroneous motive. IOW doctrine necessitates a bizarre change needed in God's word. 144k literal ethnic Jews HARMONIZES perfectly with the rest of God's word...

Once "firstfruits" is factored in, all thst spiritualizing of numbers becomes n/a. The fact that they are firstfruits points to harvest. Leave out components, and never get to the truth.

There were 12 actual apostles, even though the number 12 is symbolic.

Jesus called the Jews, Jews. So did Paul. No foul.

I just shake my head that you do not know what firstfruits means. Huh?

Nope they are VIVIDLY DESCRIBED as ethnic Jews. How could you possibly miss it. Amazing

i Ok I was instructed to view this post to understand all about firstfruits. Nope not anything there. Zero

We are TOLD who they are. No question.

No brainer since the first church was Jewish. You are preaching to the choir. I am saying the ETHNIC UNBELIEVING JEWS ARE BROUGHT IN ..YES ....THROUGH JESUS ....AS WE SEE PROPHESIED ALL THROUGH THE BIBLE. Read Ruth. Read romans 11 Read Rev 14. Note the components of "firstfruits" Note the...

Nope. The 144k are in heaven right before the wrath. They are firstfruits. They are ethnic Jews, described 2 different ways as ETHNIC JEWS. Romans 11 fulfilled.

Robes do not Signify the Holy Spirit. They signify what the high priest and Jesus wore indicating a pure vessel for service. If your assumption is true, then your doctrine indicates Some are saved and martyred apart from the Holy Spirit. Read the account in Rev, of the martyrs that are...

Your elaboration of the feasts is lacking. Feast of trumpets Points to the rapture. The rapture happens at the trumpet sound . Trumpets , or roshashana, begins the feasts. THE GATHERING OF GODS PEOPLE AT THE TRUMPET. after that is THE DAY OF ATONEMENT. AT- ONE - MENT. That is where the high...