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There is such misunderstanding who is really of Israel, who God's Israel really is and who it is comprised of. But it's all very clear in Romans through Paul: "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and...

I... kind of just told you... :) An interesting word choice there ('struggle')... :) The struggle, in this conversation (that we may or may not enter into), Rebuilder, is what some folks thing Jesus "laid out" and what they think are or are not "rapture verses." If you want to engage in a...

Well, I'm glad of that... :) That's not the problem between us, Timtofly. The problem is your... well, either your stubborn refusal ~ or mere inability ~ to hear John's Revelation for what it is, to properly piece it together (so to speak), or comprehend John's visions in... not only...

I'm quite sure you don't. And still won't even after I clarify, but here you go: "...fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are..." Jesus, Who is God, is...

The fire consuming Satan and throwing him into the lake of fire and sulfur most certainly indicates his total and final defeat of Satan. I'm not assuming anything. You may do whatever you want. :) I know. I am fully aware that is your assumption. :) No I don't... :) I guess you assume...

I think that sentiment is a dangerous path to start and/or continue down. :) This is true, generally speaking, of all of Scripture. That might be interesting, but I think it can be summed up in just a few words... maybe even one. You guys were/are talking about Matthew 24: 36-44, right? And...

I know you're conversing with another poster here, Rebuilder, but just a small interjection, if I may. Lots of folks make more of ~ in different ways ~ "The Virgin parable" than it's meant to convey... :) But, that's certainly not meant to "devalue" (or make less of it somehow) that parable...

Sure, and I have said, many times, that I'm fine with you calling it that. Your opinion is yours, and my opinion is mine. All good, right? ...because you think He already is on earth because of what you just read in chapter 19, because you think that everything described in chapter 20 in its...

You said, "You all deny Jesus is on the earth in Revelation 20." I said, "No we don't," and you said "Of course you do," offering as proof me saying, "This is the millennial reign of Christ, in which He is in heaven seated at the right hand of God." And what I'm talking about specifically with...

No, we don't, Timtofly. And here is yet another of your false caricatures... either intentional or just a terrible misunderstanding of what you think you disagree with so strongly. Thus, my statement prior to this and now again that you don't even understand what you're arguing against...

In the opinion of one (you) who cannot credibly reconcile his view with Scripture. This is true, generally speaking, of pre- (and post-) millennialists as a whole. It is what it is, Timtofly. It can, certainly. But Satan cannot do anything at all without God's allowing it. And in the case...

God's elect are not; He sustains them to the end. And "after the thousand years are ended" (Revelation 20;3) necessarily means God has saved all His people, His elect, at that point ~ brought all the Gentiles in and removed the partial hardening now on Israel. And at that point, Satan will be...

I, uh... Wow. I mean, okay, I agree, but... Where did you go and how did you get there? :) I'm not even sure how this even turned up in your mind in the discussion we were having... LOL! Grace and peace to you.

Right. I mean, they're different parts of the Gospel, so I wouldn't say the two "have nothing to do" with each other, but okay... Well, Amillennials disagree on the nature of it, but not the reality of it. It's not future only, so not merely "coming" in that sense; it's ongoing now. It has...

Agreed. But again, all Christ's enemies are defeated in Chapter 19 also. So if your reading is correct, there is no need for even Satan's binding in Revelation 20:2, because he and all Jesus's enemies have already been defeated. So, in that case, starting with Revelation 20:1, we have to see...

Yeah, don't disagree. but along the lines of what you are saying here, there is nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes). But to God be the glory, and to Him alone be that glory. He is really the Conqueror, and one day it will be in full. He is faithful and will surely do it (1 Thessalonians...

I say that's just a symptom of the real problem. ;) And understanding correctly ~ proper discernment of ~ anything in Scripture is really a function of the Holy Spirit's work in people. That's not to say that those who don't understand correctly or discern properly don't have the Holy Spirit...

I know this was addressed to Spiritual Israelite, David, but I'm going to speak to it too, if you don't mind. Yes, we agree on this; premillennialists (and postmillennialists) and amillennialists all agree on this. But ~ and I've said this same thing in other threads (maybe even this one...

No, it's not, Ronald. Amillennialism holds that Gentiles join ethnic Jews (Jewish believers), and that since Jesus came, there is no dividing wall between the two, that God's Israel includes ~ therefore it's an inclusion theology ~ both ethnic Jewish and Gentile believers, that all of these...

You think that; I completely understand. And, I respect that you do think that. I think differently. :) Which is to say... this is a vision given to John; he's being "shown" things in a dream, like Jacob and later Joseph in Genesis; I hear the whole "allegory" refrain coming again ...that...