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So, are there people who are predestined, making sure they reach their door, so that they have the opportunity to go through it, who DO NOT use that opportunity to go through the door?

Addendum: Paul refers to "the Israel of God" (over and against the "Israel" the Judaizers boast about being a part of--to which they are stringing the Gentiles along to make them join, lest the Gentiles should be "lessers"), and it is to this "Israel" that even the Gentile believers (also Jewish...

LOL I don't want to get into it. I was merely explaining the bottom line difference between Synergist and Monergist.

Nevertheless, it's tangential, and I don't want to open that can of worms--I was just helping you understand why I said "Monergist 'types'" answer the OP with ease, whereas "Synergist 'types'" come in defensively accusing me of holding to the "Monergist" view of "predestined".

I'm saying I do not know what "predestined" means in Paul's writings--and Paul doesn't treat "predestined" as you treat it, because he, in the same book, says those who have believed can be cut off for unbelief (Ro 11:17+). I'm collecting opinions on it to have a better understanding of it.

I think the bottom line of "Synergism" is an emphasis on the idea that we must do what God says--God can work in us, but without us doing those things, God will not do them, and we can fall away if we do not continue in faith and in good works; "Monergism" emphasizes God's side of things.

Unbelieving Israel is off on its own. It's one of the "goyim" right now. It's not His people. Just like any other unbelieving nation. Before, all nations were "goyim", because they were "Not My People". Now, they, too, are "Not My People". They have been "cut off from among their people", as the...

So, are there people who are predestined, making sure they reach their door, so that they have the opportunity to go through it, who DO NOT use that opportunity to go through the door?

I didn't mean "one on one" as if to say only @marks can answer here, but that each person seems to have their own views, so each person should answer for their own views, not for others', because they cannot know what the other person is thinking.

No, just that EACH PERSON has their own definition of "predestined", and I was asking him about HIS view, so no one else can give HIS answer for how he works HIS view out. You can answer for how YOU do it for YOU, though.

Right, not "the God of Israel", as if they were the only ones who were His people, his bride, but "the God of the whole earth", of ALL THE NATIONS He will be called their God, and they will be His people, to whom He will be "husband".

Yeah, that's why I said "Monergist 'types'"--not that they actually are Monergists, but, to Synergists, they are no different from Monergists. LOL

LOL Yeah, that's why I keep reminding you it is a tangent. Also, I know that, just as with the other issue, neither of us is going to change our minds, and I know I'm right, and I know you're going to ignore every piece of evidence I lay out (as you already have), so I'm not interested in...

I'm asking him how IN HIS VERSION OF PREDESTINATION he works these things out. This is, I guess, a more one-on-one thread, because people have their own views of "predestined".

LOL thanks... you know that is like blood in the water for a shark... it will start a frenzy, no matter what

Let's try not to get out too far on this tangent--Synergists will start jumping in to fight this fight, and the Topic will be lost.

This is just like the other issue (falling away from the faith in Paul's writings)--we've put our views out there, now we have to let it go--except in this case we're discussing literally a tangent. You think I'm missing it, I think you're missing it. Neither is budging. Same situation as before.

That's what we've been doing on the issue--that's how I can tell you don't. You treat God's "marriage" to Israel atomistically, as if it's not part of a larger reality, as if it stands on its own, as of it's its own institution, as if it's unique and we should all bow in reverence at its...

Monergist "types" basically affirm "doctrines of grace", Synergists don't.

I can make observations. Not one Monergist type has fought me on answering the OP, but plenty of Synergist types have come in with guns blazing, falsely accusing me of holding to a view that they then war against. The reason why I highlight it is I want to show Synergists how ridiculous they...