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ATP says that people who "have escaped the pollutions of this world" are somehow still contaminated with the pollutions of this world, because if they were truly saved then they would be OSAS. Does that make sense to you?

ATP, you continually avoid the "pollution/cleansing" aspect of the passage. As in every other case, when the texts don't agree with OSAS, you dismiss them as irrelevant. Why don't you explain how a person can escape the pollutions of this world and yet still remain polluted.

ATP, why do you insist that the phrase in 2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV, "they have escaped the pollutions of this world", refers to lost people who continue in their lost condition by preaching falsely? Do you not realize that if they have "escaped the pollutions of this world" then they are no longer...

:blink: :blink: :blink: ??? ATP meltdown in 3...2...1....

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." That is explicit. What is implicit is this: "If ye don't love Me, then forget about My commandments." It should come as no surprise that the idea of OSAS argues that we should forget about God's commandments - because Satan hates God's...

Welcome back, TB! Missed ya.

Sure, what about 2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV which speaks of people who "escaped the pollutions of this world", which can only mean they are no longer polluted. What's the only way polluted sinners may be cleansed? YES, BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. They once overcame the world by the power of Jesus, but are...

No, you've not, my brother. You're preaching a half Gospel based on careful Scripture selection. "Gifts and calling are irrevocable" refers to God's offer of them, not to recipients of them. Is there something in your life that you can't bear to surrender to God that makes you subscribe to OSAS?

ATP, you are preaching rebellion to God with your OSAS doctrine and twisting Scripture to support it. No rebels will enter the kingdom so please give up this nonsensical idea of OSAS that dead faith can obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

"The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29) does not prove OSAS: All Christians agree that the "calling" of God is irrevocable, meaning that "God's invitation to come unto Him will never be withdrawn." So why do OSAS Christians insist that the word "gifts" in the very same...

No, the problem is that professing Christians have rejected the Bible and made their own flawed human reasoning their god - a textbook description of the highest order of idolatry.

No, sir, ATP, I am not adding anything to the Scripture, but untwisting your twists. "They are loved" is the reason why God will not revoke His offer on the table which is a "call" to us that we come to Him and the "gifts" that He holds out to us to receive by faith. OSAS is the idea that dead...

Eternal redemption for WHO?

such kind words! I've enjoyed reading your insightful points as well. I rather enjoy the challenge of debate and especially the revelation about "irrevocable gifts and call" which refers to the offer of salvation, not salvation itself. Minds are hard to change, but I have faith that the Holy...

Please notice that the verse indicates that the "gifts and calling" assign ownership to God ("God's gifts and call"). Why is that important? Because that is a description of the offer of His calling and gifts extended to us, which is an irrevocable offer that rests on the table for us to choose...

No one said sinless perfection is the requirement for salvation, but total surrender to Jesus and a willingness to be made perfect is what is required. Why, oh, why is it so hard for OSAS believers to understand that their refusal to give up sin is the outward evidence of the inward reality...

ATP, I cannot debate someone who believes that the word "surrender" means "to believe" and that dead faith - faith that is devoid of obedience - can obtain what the Bible says can only be obtained by living faith - faith that includes obedience: Eternal Life. The only faith you have is that God...

exactly!

ATP, your problem is Cognitive Dissidence. You can't handle the unwelcome reality of conditional salvation based on total surrender of mind and body members to Christ so you default to the unbiblical doctrine of OSAS in the attempt to obtain through the dead faith of absentee obedience that...

If merely "believing" is surrender, then why are the believing devils trembling? The lengths that the dead faith of OSAS will go to establish itself, including REDEFINING words like "surrender" :rolleyes: No, ATP, "surrender" means to "submit to another's authority" and those who refuse to...