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So the b east rising out of the water is the b east rising out of repentance? You are being inconsistent with your allegorical reinterpretations. Also Jesus wasn't that much of a mystic like so many here want to make Him be.

I gave you the references I have, if that is not enough for you, then we are at an impasse.

well here are sone: From Yeshua Life of the Messiah from a Messianic Jewish Perspective: Volume 2 pp 45-58 Midrash Rabbah physical birth is equated to natural birth per Prov. 5:15-23 The midrash equated water with semen and birth. For a Jew to be born naturally (born of the flesh) was enough...

Other than this passage there is no other place. I do not think other than begat there is another term used for childbirth. And I am going by the material given me by authors. So that is settled then. But let me ask you how you understand the whole context Jesus spoke this in in light of...

Well when I get time, I will pull these textbooks out and give you all relevant footnotes I find.

Well they weren't you. If you wish you can write Fruchtenbaqum at ariel.org and complain.

Onee interesting study from blue letter bible is that the preposition of (ek) in being born of water is a relation to where one originates or where they are from.' "Ek" is translated several ways in English : The KJV translates Strong's G1537 in the following manner: of (366x), from (181x), out...

YOu have access to ancient Jewish libraries?????

I gave you material from two web sites, but I will not copy pages from books and post them that are copyrighted.

As soon as you cite ancinet citations that being born of water means being born of the word of God. outside of the bible of course as you wish me to do.

and if I write a series of works from footnotes, you will accpet that though I cannot paste the works themselves?

I gave y0ou the best I could find, if it is not enough for you, feel free to reject it.

I did, if it is not to your satisfaction, then you are free to rebut with counter claims.

Well as I cannot copy and paste copyrighted material, I gave you the two works I found it in. both were/are born again jews. Both hold thd's and phd's Fruchtenbaum also hold masters in Hebrew and Greek and a BA in biblical archeology. Eddersheim wrote in the late 1800's and Fruchtenbaum is...

Well I gave you a link and you did not wish to click on it the first time! What else am I to assume when you do not want to click on it? That would be like me serving you a plate of food and you weanting me to feed it to you.

Ephesians 6:12 King James Version 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. I know full well of these spirit entities. I served them directly...

Now you are claiming He was born after the 69 weeks. changing the goalposts again! You are wropng about teh start of the 69 weeks you are wrong when teh sixty nine weeks ended. You make Christ born almost 4 decades after the 69 weeks ended according to your reckonings of it. but you justify...

You are misunderstanding what Paul is doing in this passage: 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 King James Version 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance...

Well it is not my reading- but a simple way people talked of natural birth. What does it mean to be "born of water"?

If you are unable to click a link- that is your problem.