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I did, before I read for myself what he wrote. ”Because God is in like manner a Father, and He is also a Judge; but He has not always been Father and Judge, merely on the ground of His always having been God. For He could not have been the Father previous to the Son, nor a Judge previous to...

If I’m a trinitarian, I think my position would have to be that he will agree that Jewish monotheism is heresy and that he will applaud the destruction of it. If I’m a Jewish monotheist,* my position would have to be that he - being himself a Jewish monotheist - will disagree that Jewish...

“The Christian conception of God, argues Gregory of Nyssa, is neither the polytheism of the Greeks nor the monotheism of the Jews and consequently it must be true, for ‘the truth passes in the mean between these two conceptions, destroying each heresy, and yet, accepting what is useful to it...

That’s fine. I’ll continue to post in order to wrap up some loose ends for our readers. If at some point you want to resume discussing it with me I would welcome it. From my perspective, it’s been a good dialogue between us. Your conduct has been exemplary. I tip my hat to you.

Thanks. I appreciate and respect that. The church that developed the post-biblical doctrine of the Trinity produced creeds which assert that it is a salvation issue. I grew up believing that it is a salvation issue. It isn’t easy to change your mind about it when you’re brought up that way...

In your opinion @Johann, is it a salvation issue?

The difficulty for trinitarianism is the Jewish unitary monotheism of the historical Jesus -> His God, we see in scripture, is only one person, the Father. By faith and by practice, by simple definition, he himself is a strict unitarian.

Excellent. Have you read for yourself what he said they believed? If you haven’t, you should. I’ll quote it for our readers after I retrieve it from my personal library later today. That’s correct. Christianity began as a sect of, and within, Judaism. The apostles weren’t just monotheists...

That’s a point of agreement for us. That’s a point of agreement for us as well. The primitive belief of the church, though persecuted, survives to this day. Absolutely. As Gregory of Nysaa explicitly points out, the church came to consider Jewish monotheism / dogma as heresy. That...

Elemental trinitarianism. I don’t recall if I’ve discussed it with you or not @Johann. I first became aware of the terminology in Fortman’s book, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity. Fortman, a Catholic, isn’t shy about unitarianism preceding trinitarianism, nor...

That’s a good observation. I’m in full agreement with you on that point. That’s a fair summary of the trinitarian position and attitude toward unitarianism. That’s also a fair statement. I would just like to point out to our readers that that’s not always the case with unitarianism in...

Thanks. I think that would be the perception of the average trinitarian. Historically, unitarianism pre-dates trinitarianism in the church.

Unlike biblical creedal statements which are scripture, post-biblical creeds aren’t scripture. Post-biblical creeds are based on post-biblical interpretation of scripture. They come from the Catholic Church, not from Jesus and the apostles. The only real question about the post-biblical creeds...

* That wreath could sing! *