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Yeah it sounds like typical Old Testament cryptic language. Just enough to hint as to what it's talking about but not enough to prove it without other scripture to tie it all together.... here a little there a little. As for who are they. I don't know for sure, but I think they are people in...

I'm not sure how someone arrives at that conclusion when Amos 8 is a Messianic prophecy of Christ dying on the cross. If you read further down in Amos 8 and compare it to the crucifixion, it's the same story. Amos 8:3 — "And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord...

Before I get into the Daniel breakdown, can I ask you one thing that I keep getting stuck on? In Amos 8:2, God says of Israel, "The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more." That reads to me like a final word - the end has come, and He won't pass by them...

Where do you see the second coming in Daniel's 70 weeks? Anointing the Most Holy? Just making sure I understand where you’re coming from.

The death of the body isn't in question. We agree a body is dead once the soul and spirit have gone. What's in question is whether the soul is still in the body at the moment the moment the body dies, or has already departed. Your verses prove the first point but they don't address the second.

Thank you for answering. Jesus says that believers never die, and Paul gives a second witness to this, explaining how it happens: those of us who are alive and remain won't die, but will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. We're also given two examples of this process in Enoch and Elijah...

I know what you’re saying and I agree. Any week beyond 70 adds more weeks to the 70. But I don’t think the words confine it to contiguous weeks. It’s like 6 weeks are determined for my vacation time but that doesn’t mean the six weeks are contiguous.

You’re right it doesn’t say it has to be continuous but we know that it was because everything Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled in 70 weeks.

Thanks for the reply but I agree with him on that. I look at the thousand years the same way I look at the cattle on a thousand hills, literal but not physical.

I would like to get your view on what Paul said. 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Paul includes himself in those who would be alive and translated when Jesus...

I'm with you on the second death. Where we differ is on the first, and on two other things: whether Paul was including himself in "we which are alive and remain," and what Jesus meant when he said whoever believes in him will never die. So I don't have a counter to what you've said here.

Every one of us, without exception, is born into the condition the Bible calls dead. That fits the verse exactly. No twisting, no bending, no exceptions needed. And Jesus said whoever believes in him will never die, which harmonizes completely with reading that other verse as the condition...

Maybe. Some of them will say it’s a patriotic duty and celebrate it. We live in a very very screwed up world.

They don’t care who dies, it’s not them so no big deal.

I want to be one of the judges for the debate.lfh

I've got no interest in the personal side of this. My question about Enoch, Elijah and the raptured still stands, and I'd rather talk about that than about who's a Pharisee.

It depends on which Bible you read, and you'll know which one is right by whether it matches the firstfruits offering.

If all who are in Christ are the firstfruits, that's the sheaf, which is what I was getting at. Christ was not the only one. Look at what a Paul said. 1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. Christ became the firsfruits of them that...

Guys look to the shadow to define it. The firstfruits offering wasn't one grain, it was a sheaf — a bundle of stalks cut from the field and waved before the LORD on the morrow after the sabbath (Leviticus 23:10-11). If it was just one grain in the firstfruits offering then the argument could be...

I don’t agree with many things you beleive but I do agree on this and I give credit where credit is due. There is nothing more Jesus needs to do, it is finished.