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Rev 14 is the Jewish harvest to heaven. Fordtfruits in heaven at Phoebe of revelation chapter 14. and then shortly after is the main Jewish harvest with Jesus sitting on a cloud.

No. Because Christ is the firstfruits those Afterward are main harvest. You can't have 2 firstfruits. I just shake my head at what doctrine does to bible comprehension. So now you are chosen out of Jewish tribes. For 40 years of study I have always read and understood Jesus returns postrib. I...

"the pre tribulation rapture doctrine began with Darby" Totally 100% debunked.

The Shepherd of Hermas (AD 90 to 150), speaks of the pretribulational concept of escaping the tribulation. "You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Therefore, go, tell the elect of the Lord His mighty...

In a sermon entitled “On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World,” Syrian church father Pseudo-Ephraem (fourth to sixth century) wrote, “For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the...

1) the bible says that every person on the face of the earth takes the mark whose names are not written in the book of life 2) the bible says that power is given to the antichrist to overcome the saints 3) in the book of daniel it says that the antichrist kills the saints 4) in revelation it...

we have always agreed he returns AFTER the tribulation. I have NEVER said he doesn't

so the Body of Christ is firstfruits? TRIBES? What TRIBE are you? we have always agreed he returns AFTER the tribulation. I have NEVER said he doesn't

First of all you have to understand harvest when you see the term first fruits it automatically refers to harvest. Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrection and the ascension to heaven. When you see the harvest of the barley and the wheat that is the gentile church. The Jewish harvest is the...

I have a hard time understanding why postribbers are so easily misled. That idea that Darby originated the pretrib rapture was debunked over 20 years ago by Bill Cloud. New writings are being discovered all the time. Pretrib rapture is as ancient as any doctrine. But if postribbers think their...

Pretrib rapture documented and taught a few years after polycarbonate

https://enduringword.com/was-the-pre-tribulation-rapture-invented-only-200-years-ago-qa-for-march-4-2021/ a short excerpt : ""And, to quickly make mention of, there are references in the ancient writers Shepherd of Hermas, Victorinus, and others that are quite consistent with the...

Here is a small part of the article "Early Witnesses After the time of the apostles, a number of writings indicate belief in the imminence of Christ’s return, which is consistent with pre-tribulationism. Clement of Rome (35-101), Ignatius of Antioch (died 110), The Didache (a late first-century...

I hope one day all will center on eschatology in the sense the bible frames it. 1) it is pointing to "the fulfillment", not centered on other things I see people trying to make it into. 2) the gathering of the bride. With the wedding at the Father's house Most, if not all NT end times focus...

Smart man.

And yours was invented by dead ancients. You guys claim your doctrine is from man. You point to men to authenticate your doctrine. When they,and you have limited knowledge of eschatology. Not to mention we now have accounts of the church fathers teaching a pretrib rapture. So so wrong and...

The challenge to all, is who is grafted BACK IN in romans 9-11. Why don't any of you repl theos ever read romans?

QUOTE "Acts 1? Jesus ascended — He didn’t rapture the Church. That’s a category error. And the angels said He will return the same way He left — once, visibly, from the clouds. They didn’t say He’d come secretly seven years earlier to scoop up a hidden group. Now let's look at it instead of...

QUOTE “Worthy Ones Taken Pretrib”? Where’s the verse? Where does Jesus say “those counted worthy will be taken before the tribulation begins”?" I already told you. Jesus said "because you have kept the word of my testimony, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that's about to come up...

Jesus used Noah and Lot's deliverance side by side. He used both as pretribulation. Both gathered pretrib. But Noah is used as a vivid pretrib rapture. Noah gathered before the flood into the ark. Nothing was happening while Noah was in the ark pretrib. When the flood came, Noah was in the ark...