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  1. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Why do you think "the beast" is a man? There is no mention of a man in the description - Revelation 13 (WEB): (1) Then I stood on the sand of the sea. I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads. On his horns were ten crowns, and on his heads, blasphemous names...
  2. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    You said that verses 4 & 6 are referring to tribulation saints, and that there is "No mention of the rapture or church saints", so I said there is no mention of the tribulation saints either!
  3. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Why mention the Watchtower? I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses teach what I have been writing (and I am not, nor have ever been, a JW). Being immortal doesn't mean that you have no beginning, just that you will have no end. Christians are to become immortal, but all of them/us have a...
  4. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Well the Codex Sinaiticus doesn't have Revelation verse 5 at all. It says (from Codex Sinaiticus): 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and the power of judging was given to them; and I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God...
  5. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    That's sad :disappointed:. You should try harder to harmonise all Scripture verses to be more sure that you understand God's word to us. Again, the Sriptures say that only God has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16), and that, John 5:26 (WEB): (26) For as the Father has life in himself, even so he...
  6. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    I trusted the source without investigating it's accuracy. A quick search shows that Syriac is a dialect of Aramaic. However, the main point is still correct, the Syriac Peshitta translation of the New Testament was written in the first or second century and is older than any Greek manuscript...
  7. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Jude 1:6 (WEB): (6) Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, he has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day. These angels are kept in darkness only until their judgement day. The darkness is described as everlasting...
  8. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Bible study shows that the first part of Revelation 20:5, "The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished", is believed by Bible scholars to be an interpolation: Probably crept into the text by accident in the fifth century; at first a marginal comment made by a reader...
  9. keithr

    If perfect, why did Adam sin?

    Actually, it looks like you are quoting the Online Bible Greek Lexicon, which says: 2602 καταβολή katabole [kat-ab-ol-ay’] from 2598; n f; TDNT-3:620,418; [{See TDNT 362 }] AV-foundation 10, to conceive + 1519 1; 11 1) a throwing or laying down 1a) the injection or depositing of the...
  10. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    What makes you think angels are immortal? This passage says only God has immortality, implying that angels are not immortal: 1 Timothy 6:13-16 (WEB): (13) I command you before God, who gives life to all things, ... ; (16) who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no...
  11. keithr

    A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

    Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB): (14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. Just because it mentions people being cast into the lake of fire after it...
  12. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    So if you don't want to debate the Trinity then why have you brought up 1 John 5:7 and referred to two of your posts on defending the Trinity? And you posted the same post to an old thread that's been dormant for nearly a year, replying to a post I made about 1.5 years ago? (Is Jesus God...
  13. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    I believe God's word, not men's words. The Trinity was made up by men hundreds of years after the Apostles died. The Apostles did not teach the Trinity, and that is very clear from the Bible. According to the Apostles it is heretical to believe in the Trinity. That verse can be applied to...
  14. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    Hmm, eternal death where nobody ever dies. o_O Some people will believe any old nonsense!
  15. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    So you don't follow the examples of the Apostles who would strive to correct people if they were misunderstanding the Gospel that the Apostles preached? That doesn't seem like the correct Christian attitude!
  16. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    You're mixing up Scripture verses which are talking about different things and assuming that they're talking about the same thing, hence the confusion. Those spirits are not humans, they're fallen angels. Jude 1:6 (WEB): (6) Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own...
  17. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    Then why are you participating in this forum if you think that all we need to do to understand the Scriptures is simply read them? As the apostle Peter explained, some of the Scriptures are hard to understand, and we need help in our studies of them in order to correctly understand them. 2...
  18. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    You do realise that Jesus went to hell? Was he tortured too? Acts 2:25-32 (WEB): (25) For David says concerning him, ‘I saw the Lord always before my face, For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved. (26) Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced. Moreover my flesh also...
  19. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    (Final part of article about the Lazarus parable.) The Rich Man's Brothers Next, the Rich Man, again addressing Abraham, asks for Lazarus to go to his father's house to warn his five brothers, that they not come into the place of torment he was in. (Luke 16:28) In the years 67-68 CE many Jews...
  20. keithr

    Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

    (Continuation of article about the Lazarus parable.) The Death of Lazarus In the context of this parable Jesus said the following: "The Law and the Prophets were until John. Since then the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it." (Luke 16:16) To those who view this...