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All very good points. Very scriptural. However I might suggest one little thing, namely, who Jesus said were children of the devil. John 8:3, And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, It was those praticular scribes and...

It is important when reading the scriptures to ascertain to whom something was written and when it was written. Exod 12:3, Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth [day] of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of [their] fathers...

Well, you are right in pointing out that Thessalonians never says explicitly that Jesus will come to the earth after we meet him in the clouds. But then again, neither is there any explicit declaration, "Jesus is God" and yet that has been accepted as the very bedrock of the Christian faith by...

Not saying you are wrong, but how do you see Romans chapter 11 fit in with all of that, particularly verses 1 & 2? Rom 11:1-2, 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his...

All good stuff. All those things are both actual things but are also, as you say, harbingers of something even more real. But I'm not so sure about Israel's heritage being "supposed." God did reserve them for Himself as a peculiar people and It was that heritage that led to Jesus. Seems like a...

All that sounds good. To be clear, I absolutely believe we have Christ in us. It'd be hard to deny that after reading Col 1:27. Of course now we still have that pesky flesh that gets in the way of our doing God's will consistently (Romans 7). That'll all change when we get new bodies like Jesus...

It is certainly true that there is the natural and the spiritual, but I think we must keep each in its proper place. There is actually a slight caveat to that, but I won't go into it since it's not relevent to this conversation. If we spiritualize everything, I don't see any end to the...

I wonder how this fits in: Ezek 11:17-19, 17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all...

I'm not 100% sure exactly where it's written (Isaiah, Jeramiah, or maybe Ezekiel), but the scriptures talk about people having regular old houses, vineyards, barns, and jobs on the new earth. As I recall it mentions carpenters, farmers, artisans and a few more professions. Seems like it will be...

I'm curious. How do you make the connection between "the end point" (Hebrew olem) of v15 and the Roman Empire? Why could it not refer to the restored earth in Revelation 20-22? I think those chapters talk about a new earth (really "land" in their cosmology) with a city, mountains, and rivers...

That's what the text says when taken at face value. Not sure why so many seem to think God was somehow trying to be cryptic or something like that with His words. Just read what's written and it all makes perfect sense.

All very good points. You seem rather perceptive regarding God's wonderful matchless Word! I would like to add some stuff about the mystery, stuff which you probably already understand. Strong's definiton: G3466 μυστήριον musterion (mï-stee'-riy-on) n. a secret or “mystery.” {through the idea...

Well, I think you may be right about my not fully grasping what you are saying. I have been know to be a bit slow on the uptake at times. :) As far as what Jesus inherited: Gen 12:7, And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar...

Those are all good points. I agree with you about the parallels between Abraham and Christians, but a parallel of something by definition means there are two different things. When God spoke to Abraham about inheriting the land, I think, when taken as read, that He was referring to a very...

"He who has an ear, let him hear." has a context, namely that the Jews did not understand who Jesus was despite the clear parallel between his life and that which was written to Israel. There is nothing spiritual about it. The OT said the messiah would do such and such and Jesus did such and...

Thanks for the heads up. I stand corrected. I edited that post to better conform to the scriptures. All God promised Abraham was the land, the land he could see with his own two eyes. Although it is from that land, Jerusalem and surrounding area, that Jesus will rule his worldwide kingdom...

I agree. The scriptures do not say that. God did not promise Abraham, "the lands of this earth." Here's what they actually say: Gen 13:14-15, 14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and...

I think the scriptures corroborate all of what you said. It seems simple enough to me when they are read with the simplicity with which they are written. Too much private interpretation is being read into them by too many. But nobody can go beyond what they are taught. The problem is that many...

All very true! But none of those verses help me understand who God's God is (understanding that John 20:17 says Jesus has the same God as you and I). Any verses that might help me with that?

Thanks brother! I share the sentiment of your last sentence. This debate has been going on for 2,000 years and it's not likely to end today unless everybody suddenly believed what I say (or you for that matter), and I don't see that happening anytime soon! :) I think Romans 10:9-10 is the...