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You are confusing righteousness and holiness...again and again. The bible doesn't call Abraham a holy prophet. Yes, there were holy prophets...anointed by God to speak His words. But that was also based on the law. Remember the kind of mercy that Elijah (a holy prophet) showed to the 50 men that...

What you have to understand is that it is essential to believe INTO Christ. Don't be deceived.

You are not understanding how God judges, God has no favourites...if you trust Him he will justify you. If you ask for mercy He will give it. God is merciful. In the case of both Abraham and Phinehas God justified men who either trusted Him or else acted on God's behalf. In both cases God...

I appreciate humour....I do. Someone who knows God is coherent in their understanding of the scriptures. Someone who ONLY knows the scriptures a certain way...by indoctrination, say, knows nothing at all.

As God did to Pninehas and many others in the OT....including Job BEFORE he was tested and met the Lord. You have the wrong idea about either testament. Being in Adam doesn't mean a person is unrighteous...where does that idea come? Some commentary? It's not in the bible. Mass confusion on a...

It's not a question of who sees it. It's a question of losing one's religious certainty by being exposed to the truth.

I'm doing the very opposite. I, like Paul, am showing a precedent for justification by faith without works in the Torah. I'm upholding it. You are NOT paying attention. You are not coherent. Phinehas was not in Christ...and neither was Abraham..both were justified by God the very same way...

That's what I'm saying. You are adding in words willy-nilly to have the bible say...And God justified him with His own righteousness....or some other invention. Look you believe that before the cross no man was born again OF THE SPIRIT. No man could see or enter INTO the kingdom. All people had...

Exactly...like any other righteous man in the OT. Have you ever heard of Phinehas? He killed two people and God justified him the same way. He did what was right in God's eyes. So God justified him. Simple. No need to contradict the entire New Testament

No...he was not in Christ. God justifies....because He is merciful and just. But Abraham walked as a mere mortal man. It just so happens that he trusted God. Same for the Publican and the thief on the cross...AND Zacchaeus who gave back what he had stolen.

Not at all. Without entering into Christ there is NO holiness. Abraham was not IN Christ...therefore he was walking as a man. It just so happens that Abraham trusted God. It doesn't say he walked in holiness. We can be justified while still walking as a man...like the Publican or the thief on...

So what kind of righteousness was imputed to Abraham?

Abraham was justified in his own righteousness...in the lower walk. No one was born of the Spirit until Jesus was glorified. Being born again is the first step in a race in holiness. After an initial grace we need a fulness of grace by entering INTO Christ. As such we need to surrender...

What you call a fact I call the truth. The cross is about holiness...sanctification, a purifying from sin. The cross is an instrument of death...the death of the outer man ego that contains the sin nature. Why is that necessary? To liberate the inner man into a divine fellowship with the living...

WOW. You got it. :woot: From righteousness into holiness. The OT standard is righteousness and the NT standard is holiness(IN God's righteousness) The OT saints walked in the "lower walk" of righteousness but with the ATTITUDE of a saint. We learn the right attitude from them although we can...

I think that's why the writer of Hebrews says...the spirits of just men made perfect....to show that this is a holiness issue and not dealing with numbers.

WE, as a group are not "Perfected" in number until the very end when the Lord says.."enough"! That's when the "magic" number will have been reached. IS that number 144,000 saints? We don't know these things. God has a number. And that number is the Bride of Christ being perfected in number and...

True. People live with control. Many who are unsupervised at work will just goof around...they need a strong hand keeping them honest. And in society we have police. The fear of jail keeps many in line. I love freedom...but not a freedom to do as I want...but a freedom to do as I am constrained...

Good question! When Jesus says to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect..is that speaking to the dead? God is certainly not dead? But God is in another realm. God is Spirit. And we are born in the Spirit to have fellowship with God who is both Spirit and in the Spirit. So then the...

We have to keep in mind that there are spiritual forces at work...even if people don't understand that they can be a platform for that kind of activity. I agree. This is not a church meeting, and we are not looking at the truth on the threads...but free expression. And I accept the aspect of...