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It depends on how you define SAVED. And that tends to be the problem with OSAS discussions... everyone doesn't define it the same. So, what's SAVED mean? The TULIP crowd refers to it instead as Perseverance of the Saints, meaning that everyone who truly believes on Christ will eventually...

She's not in the U.S., so she probably isn't watching our media. Not that British media doesn't have its own agenda, but it isn't quite the same.

Demonic delusion? Just going to skip straight to ridiculous accusations, then? Not even a snide comment, or back-handed compliment first? Really just proves my original point... this thread is toxic.

What an awful thread. If one wanted to know why people are leaving the church, all they would have to do is look at this.

Those aren't the same thing. The word 'church' doesn't appear in the Old Testament. But the Greek word that is translated church in most Bibles - ἐκκλησία - is used in translation of the Hebrew word קָהֵל (Qahal) quite a few times in the Septuagint. Click that link for a list of them. So...

They're more than intertwined, they're the same word. Well, if you're using the King James version, anyway. In Greek AND Hebrew.

The first one there was Abel, so yeah a pretty long time...

This... this right here. If one reads the Old Testament, and particularly Daniel, you'll find that theseat of the evil empire moves. It was Babylon, then Persia, then Greece, then Seleucia. At the time of the New Testament it was Rome... and it continues to move. More recently it has been...

It's a reference to another book, but that one isn't in the Bible. In the pseudepigraphal Book of 1Enoch (chapter 22), the titular character is taken on a tour where he is shown four resting places for the souls of the dead. There is a place for the martyrs, one for the righteous (not...

No, he was allowed to rent a private dwelling: Act 28:16 And when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard: but Paul was suffered to dwell by himself with a soldier that kept him. Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him...

That's all logical, but it doesn't square with what we know of Roman history. Paul was a Roman citizen and the Romans endowed their citizens a number of rights, even in custody. His "imprisonment" was more of a "house arrest" if you put it in modern terms.

Have you considered that it might be both? Revelation has multiple things going on. There are short epistles, a record of several visions, and then there are explanations of the visions. The different parts may not have been written by the same person, or at the same time.

It's not really an argument, is it? Just an assertion with nothing behind it.

I don't agree with this at all. The Bible says surprisingly little about hell, and what it does say is horribly obfuscated by confusion between Hades and Tartarus, and the Germanic conception of Hel, a pagan idea.

The capital-C Church didn't exist yet at the time. Sheep are used symbolizing Israelites. The metaphor extends further... in Hebrew literature, certain animals are used as symbols of certain nations specifically. Egyptians are 'wolves.' Canaanites are 'dogs.' Ishmael's descendants are 'wild...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt

The Midianites were nomadic, and in addition to herding, they engaged in trade. If we were to put their range on a map, it should be bigger... much bigger. On the map below I've highlighted below, it includes both sides of the Gulf, most of the Spice Route, and extends into Biblical Kush...

It can't be seen by reading the English text, but Jesus' third question was different. The first two times Jesus asked Peter if he ἀγαπᾷς (loves) Him. The third time he asked if he φιλεῖς (loves) Him.

As I read Daniel and Revelation, it seems to be less about the destruction of Babylon and more about a transfer of power. The seat of the evil empire moves - from Babylon to Persia to Greece to Rome, yet it remains culturally whole, it's culture centered on money.

I'm not a fan either. His creation of a secondary class of Scripture ("deuterocanon") has had long-reaching effects that aren't good. And he appears to have been influenced by the Jews of his day, who were anti-Christian in some of their positions. Quite a few doctrines were still being...