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I agreed to what you said, I quote - He gave up that glorious state to become a lowly human who was to sacrifice his life because Adam didn’t love his God enough to sacrifice his wife for him. He chose to side with his disobedient wife rather than to lose her.....creating the necessity for all...

I guess you missed - Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him...

Shall we quote in context ? Filipp 2:6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God, Filipp 2:7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, Filipp 2:8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled...

Let's not forget the passage we are talking about - Hebr 9:12 - he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. You said based on this verse Jesus needed redemption. I disagree, the...

John - 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I [Jesus] had with you [Father] before the world existed. Excellent start, Jesus existed before humans were created, can we conclude Jesus was not a human, thus a spiritual Being? IOW, who was He before creation?

That's a pleasant surprise. Agree. Okay, first point agreed, curious on my next points. 2. We know Jesus with the Father was involved in the creation story (Col 1) 3. We know Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end (Rev) 4. We know Jesus existed before...

No idea why do you think so, but I have the idea you are going to tell me.

All glory is for God the Son.

John 17:5 - And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I [Jesus] had with you [Father] before the world existed. This verse is about the glory between God the Father and God the Son and the glory between Them goes back before creation, before the Father (Elohim) said...

Where ? John - 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I [Jesus] had with you [Father] before the world existed.

So Jesus as ONLY HUMAN had to earn his redemption ????

Luk 22:39 And he came out and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives, and the disciples followed him. Luk 22:40 And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” Luk 22:41 And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and...

Incredible indeed...............

Wow... Face, you adding to Scripture ? Let's check the real Scripture and in context - Hebr 9:11 And Christ being come, chief priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands--that is, not of this creation-- Hebr 9:12 neither through blood...

@face2face , @Aunty Jane I am much surprised about your answer on my first point - 1. We know Jesus was the ONLY human Who preexisted and knew His life with the Father when He was on Earth (John 17) John - 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with...

You are sabotaging what I wrote, changing the subject. 1. We know Jesus was the ONLY human Who preexisted and knew His life with the Father when He was on Earth (John 17) John 17:5 - And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed...

Yes, I know that you believe that, but actually (as indicated) I am more interested on what we can agree and what you can derive from the points I quoted, a few more - 1. We know Jesus as the ONLY human Who preexisted and knew His life with the Father when He was on Earth (John 17) 2. We know...

No worries my friend :vgood:

Thanks @Aunty Jane and @face2face for both thoughtful posts. I think it's obvious by now we are not going to agree, nevertheless we can give it a try on which points we agree when it's about the question - Who is Jesus and what do we know about Him - 1. We know Jesus as only human He...

No button for 10 likes. The Didache (a.d. 60-150) is convincing enough.