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It is written, Jesus was "Us" in spirit before the Word, came in the flesh, then returned. From flesh and blood He returned to be One with the Father again, whom "is spirit", and said, "follow Me." Depending on what point you come in on Jesus' example, I suppose you could answer it either way...

I might need a math lesson to follow you on that one. hlf clfh

I should think that is not the order of Jesus' own walk...thus not one to "follow", but to avoid.

I offer that as a rhetorical question, but one worthy of consideration. Seriously--just ask the Priests and Pharisees of Jesus's time when you see them. Some may only be able to wave from across the everlasting gulf, if at all. But surely there are a few present in heaven...like Nicodemus for...

The conflict is not a matter of God's will, but is a parable, and a foreshadowing of what would occur between God's leading of Israel and Christ (son of David) building His church. Israel was leading Israel (12 tribes)...in spite of their often doing evil. Messiah came and with Him the kingdom...

Sorry @Episkopos but the idea and belief that there would be a rapturous mass future only event coming at the end of the age...is the biblical "lie" spoken of by Paul. Such belief and delusion was allowed by God for unbelief in what Jesus actually said of His return, as what "must shortly come...

I do understand that what you have quoted can and has been interpreted to be future. However, Peter was quoting Joel who did prophecy of the future, and yet Peter announced the prophecy as having begun by the evidence of what was experienced that very day. Which, indeed, does not explain all of...

:clapping: You've been hearing! pryw

As long as you take that attitude, you remain under the dim view. On the contrary, it is not for me to "speak in a way people understand", but that people should yield to the need of "the renewing of your mind" (Romans 12:2). Meanwhile, No...all do not see through the "same glass as all...

The specific "lie" spoken of and reported by Paul, was not believing what Jesus said and promise of the timing of His return, and then alternatively teaching a false doctrine of fulfillment in the distant future. However, what Jesus actually said (speaking to those of that day and referring to...

Yes, to one life, and anther death. Each of which comes when Jesus comes/returns. But regarding those who receive eternal life, we should know that the time and return of Jesus is the time of our passing from death to life, and also of being born again of the spirit of God, for it is Him who...

I get that and concur. But that simply is not the point I was making about the total disregard for what Jesus actually said about the day and hour of His return. Which is the intended topic of this thread. Even so, I have heard you and appreciate your input. I see your point as the consequence...

Like James, Romans 10:9 is Paul's "works" statement, expressing the idea that one who believes will openly confess. Which is a form of evidence, if not for others, for one's own conviction--which God does not require or need. But men on the other hand, may need to walk it out, as if taking a new...

If one "believes" they'll have a pizza, it does not mean they had a pizza. The correct order is: We are first drawn by God, then we believe, then we are born again at a "day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only" (Matthew 24:36).

Sorry, I was referring to what Paul said to and of some of the Thessalonians of that time during the early church, as showing that those who are born again, whom Christ had come into, would indeed know the day and the hour because He was coming/returning into them, that very hour: But you...

So be it. So shall it be written of you.

What is wrong...was and is the total disregard and unbelief, that He would actually return "shortly" (Revelation 1:1 and 22:6). Which was the predictable response of natural men of flesh and blood, that then began to explain that truth from Jesus away, developing their own false and...

Your organic attempt at explaining away world wide "confusion"--which I only brought up to help you transition from thinking only in the ways of natural men of flesh and blood, is obviously a problem even here and now among we two, self evident, even speaking the same language. Of which God did...

And you think you would recognize what is clearly stated after all this time seeing all as through a glass dimly? How was that--was that clear enough for you? On the contrary, you would most likely think it gibberish and reject it.

Unfortunately the lie told of and reported by Paul, has caused many to believe that day would only be in the distant future. But as you quoted, he told those of that time, that the time was "this day." Even so, many are under delusion even to this day.