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Hi Gary Mac I'm not going to debate baptism here... Just have a question. Jesus DID say that we are to be baptized... Matthew 28:19 I also believe that you were saved before you were ever baptized. But my question is: WHY do you suppose Jesus said to be baptized? Could it be only as an outer...

But they didn't even teach differently.

Fred,,, On threads that I begin,,,,I ask that members treat each other with respect... as anyone should do - especially we Christians. Not nice to call someone that does not agree with you a liar,,,shortsighted, blunt, etc. Please refrain from doing this and stick to the topic, which I really...

100% Correct ! Jesus was God from the beginning. If we say He was a sinner, or needed ANYTHING we need... then we're saying that GOD is a sinner and is in need of something that man requires.... like baptism for instance. God does NOT need to be baptized - for ANY reason. (as a symbol or for...

It might be heretical Fred. But many theologians DO accept the water as signifying physical birth. I understand that some doctrine is heretical... not sure this would be one of them. More a misundertanding?

Still mulling this over. @rockytopva and @Gary Mac have made some good points. One of the dillemas I have is the wording. YOU MUST BE BORN OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT So don't we get the spirit at baptism? Wouldn't it be like saying: BORN OF THE SPIRIT AND THE SPIRIT ??? There's a difference...

LOL That's exactly what he said ! He learned from another person. I also hear that we're living in the tribulation period. I don't know... I get to eat every day and I'm wearing pretty new shoes. Doesn't seem like the tribulation to me. Maybe Jesus wasn't very precise in explaining how bad it...

Agreed Amigo. Scripture is pretty easy to understand. Jesus made it easy ON PURPOSE! But we screw it up somehow. Seems like we let others mess it up for us. This is really bothersome to me.

Study up on the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants. It might be of help to you. Do you think God meant for ONLY the Jews to know about Him and Jesus? I've already posted twice Jesus saying that He had other sheep that were to come into the fold. You never explained what He meant by that. What...

You know what's unsettling? That persons come up with this weird stuff. You think YOU are qualified to do your own studying..... Right. THIS is why sola scriptura does not work. Did Paul --- Paul, the very favorite of some, as though HE went to the cross and not Jesus --- Didn't Paul state...

Was Jesus teaching the Bad News? WHO is at the center of the Good News? Paul? Did Paul go to that cross? Jesus taught water baptism.....your statement Paul did not teach water baptism....your statement. Looks like we'll be needing TWO New Testaments. The Jesus version and the Paul version...

Who can know? We each have a different opinion. Look like Sola Scriptura doesn't function very well.

Great point !

Hate to bud in EG But Father gives enough light to everyone to be able to believe in Him. Some call this prevenient grace. It would be found in Romans 1:19.....God has always revealed Himself through His creation. Those that come to believe... God gives to Jesus since Jesus is the Savior...

Agreed re the Last Supper...this is also my understanding. I agree since I believe you're saying that the NC is in EFFECT right now. §This is what I know...If we want to say that it will be FULFILLED in a future time,,,that's fine with me. I used to teach the Covenants but have forgotten a lot.

§Where does it state this? The NC was ratified when Jesus died. This is when a Covenant/Testament becomes valid. The mystery Paul spoke of was that the Gentiles were going to become part of God's people.

Not important. You listed a bunch of verses with no comment. Who can know what you meant by it..... Just like the other member did. You agreed that it's scripture.... but no one can know for sure WHY it was posted.

You didn't reply to the fact that God told Abraham he would be a blessing to all nations. Does this mean after the end of the world when we see the New Jerusalem? Do you believe BLESSINGS will be necessary in the age to come? Do you think we'll be needing blessings in heaven? What you're...

EG Paul taught doing good works: Ephesians 2:10 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,,,, We are CREATED for good works Colossians 3:23 23Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance...

Which tradition? You mean biblical tradition? Do you mean HOW the covenants were studied and taught? Do you believe the NC began after the cross...which actually IS when it began since a person must die first before their testimony becomes valid..... Do you believe the NC was NEVER mentioned...