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LOL The above is sufficient. Just 2 topics I'm willing to discuss at length: Eternal security and we don't agree. Reformed faith and we do agree. Tutti calmi !! 'Night

I'm sorry Brakelite Meant to write a little more but had to go. Agreed. This is definitely true today when we're being told that there is no God so we could live how we want to and that it allows us to be more free. Relativism. No absolute morals. Anything goes. That's how the devil works...

I posted the verses JBO. You could take it or leave it. In fact, you just repeated it up above.

I think you've got it. IOW, does YOUR FAITH save you,,, or are you saved by your church...or the faith of your church. There's a prayer in the CC that states something like: Do not look down at me, a sinner, but on the FAITH OF YOUR CHURCH.... meaning that it's the CC that saves and not so...

LOL Yes. It's just as well.

J, I believe I AM using context....this is why it doesn't seem to make sense to me UNLESS we add THE or THAT. Can't Jude 3 be referring to something specific, which I stated early on. IOW, Our FAITH is the specific FAITH mentioned in Jude 3. So, it becomes THE FAITH precisely because it IS...

You should tag in the OP. Only HE can answer.

Brakelite! After FOUR YEARS and you still don't understand what I'm getting at??!! Uffa!

The above is so silly I refuse to reply to it.

That does not reply to my question. So, basically, you don't know that even nature has been affected by the sin nature. Well, it has, and every church I've been in contact with (3) teaches this and the bible clearly confirms it. Again,,,,Romans 8:19-22 Verse 22 THE WHOLE CREATION....everything...

Sometimes a definite article has to be added to the English in order for the sentence to make any sense. I checked my Italian bible which is much closer to the Greek and it states for Jude 3 FOR THAT FAITH..... I'd say that for: THE FAITH and THAT FAITH means exactly the same in common...

Who said nature has a conscience? Again you mention animals and nature.... My question to you, again, is: Do animals suffer? Why do they suffer? Does nature turn on us? Why does it do this? Waiting on a reply.

@Johann gave a comprehensive explanation...something I'm not able to do. But look at your last sentence: You wrote: "BECAUSE IN VERSE 23 PAUL SAYS: AND NOT ONLY THE CREATION, BUT WE OURSELVES, WHO HAVE THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THE SPIRIT..." Don't you see that Paul is separating THE CREATION from...

Great Johann. As usual.

Hey Brakelite I don't remember you. But it's been more than 4 years. And every time people try to answer it with the same old explanations... which are not explanations at all. What I'm trying to accomplish is simple. To make others understand that we don't know why evil exists or why it's...

Do you believe nature is perfect? If not, what's wrong with it?

I missed this. Why not?

Are you reading the NT in Greek?

What is the difference between Jude 3 in my NASB and the original authors? In the NASB it sounds fine to me. It states exactly what I posted. That the Apostles (and Jesus) delivered THE FAITH to the saints. The saints were delivered the TEACHINGS of our faith.

No Johann. Sorry. It doesn't explain it at all. The above only states that sin and evil exist. Of course the ECFs agreed....it's true! Satan had a role... agreed. So WHY did satan rebel? He wanted to be like God. That could be the sin of pride. Where did sinful pride come from if God is all...