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Okay, so you don't believe you made a false statement. Then PROVE your claim: "the reason Martin Luther and others left the formal church was because their efforts to effect correction were not just ignored. They were condemned." You see - it's easy to call me a liar or to say that I'm "mean"...

An until YOU are willing to have a completely honest discussion, you will be exposed for lying. Once again, Amadeus - YOU made a false statement about history and now you're frantically trying to transfer the blame on me. Ben honest, for a change . . .

Can people drive out demons the name of Jesus if they are totally lost and not born again?

In other words, my historically-bankrupt friend - you don't have a clue . . . I asked you flat-out to tell me which Church today is older than the Catholic Church - and you failed. Good job . . .

And when did this "Roman Church" arise? Who started it? Who was its first Pope? The Popes have been referred to ans listed as earthly heads over the Church since the 2nd century. When did this "Roman" Church begin??

Only in your twisted view - but NOT in history. I already presented evidence from EASTERN Patriarchs touting the Authority of the Pope from the early centuries of the Church. I already showed you that at the Council of Chalcedon, which was in the EAST - the Fathers stated, "Peter has spoken...

A person who has been born again in Christ can fall away and lose his secure position (2 Peter 3:17) by their OWN doing. The Scriptures are painfully clear on this fact. Let me offer an example. If you are drowning in the sea and are saved by a passing boat - you are saved as long as you STAY...

You seem to want to end the conversation - NOT because there is no "edification" - but because you got caught with your historical pants down. Again - don't make these kinds of false claims about history unless you can back them up - with HISTORY.

"All" refers to the part where I said that they can lose it "all". I was referring to their salvation.

Yes, he changes the subject a lot. However, to say that "everything" comes from God, including sin is false.

Until you can address the word "Epignosis" - your answer is irrelevant. These verses speak of the born again Christian, who has an EPIGNOSIS which is a full, experiential knowledge of Christ. ONLY those who are born again can have an "Epignosis" of Christ - and these verses indicate that even...

Care to elaborate?

No - disobedience, unfaithfulness and all other sins don't come from Him.

Ummmmmm, if you're NOT a historian - why would you make such a ludicrous statement about history like: "the reason Martin Luther and others left the formal church was because their efforts to effect correction were not just ignored. They were condemned." If you're going top make claims about...

QUOTE="Grams, post: 371770, member: 7520"]You are either saved !!! Or Not! Once saved is for ever............ but what you do on this earth gives you your position in the heavens......... That's NOT what the Bible says. The Bible speaks of saved, born again people with a...

Would you mind explaining what the "RCC" is? Judging by the fact that YOU started this moronic thread - something tells me that you'll get this one wrong as well . . .

Another cop-out from a historically-bankrupt anti-Catholic Remember - YOU are the one who called history into question. When I held you accountable for your false claims - you ran to the Bible stating that this was "all" the evidence you needed. If you're going to pick a fight about history -...

Ummmm, can YOU tell us the difference? I'll bet $100 that you can't . . .

The is no such thing as the "Roman Catholic" Inquisitions. Did somebody forget to crack open a history book again?

And this is nothing but a giant cop-out. YOU falsely charged that the concerns of your Protestant Fathers were "ignored" by the Catholic Church. I simply asked you to show me some historical documentation for that - and you couldn't. Instead, you quoted Scripture. Don't be angry with ME...